[birdk9]

Looking at the data for Alliant and Hodgdon You're definitely going to use less than 18gr of powder. According to Hodgdon 16.3 for a 1180 load with CB6100 wad. There's a wide range for powder that will make a safe load with low pressure. I think your real problem is going to be stack height with a 12S0 wad. When I see a CB6100 wad called out, it is usually because of stack height, otherwise they would have called out the 12S0 clone/CB2100. I have both wads on hand. I have never used IMR Red. I do have 4lbs of Red Dot on its way. I am interested to hear what works.
I will attach a picture of the two wads in a minute. Very different stack heights. Hand load a couple using the Hodgdon data and swap a 12S0 in and see how they crimp up. Pressure will be around 8000 psi so you are in no danger there. I'm betting the shell will be really dished and you will need the CB6100 to fill the hull.

Good luck

 

[grizquad]

I have been experimenting with the Federal Grand hulls. The 12S0 is same as CB2100-12. In Top guns I use CB2100 for 1oz loads. I too am out of Clays, but have 700X. This is the recipe from Hodgdon that I used for 1 box that I tried and really like, and am about to make several cases to use.
700X 16gr. I am using a PW 800+ using G1 for powder 1 1/8 #8 shot 1100 fps and Nobel primer with CB6118-12 wad. I have never used IMR red
Good luck

 

[rrliess]

Looking at the data for Alliant and Hodgdon You're definitely going to use less than 18gr of powder. According to Hodgdon 16.3 for a 1180 load with CB6100 wad. There's a wide range for powder that will make a safe load with low pressure. I think your real problem is going to be stack height with a 12S0 wad. When I see a CB6100 wad called out, it is usually because of stack height, otherwise they would have called out the 12S0 clone/CB2100. I have both wads on hand. I have never used IMR Red. I do have 4lbs of Red Dot on its way. I am interested to hear what works.
I will attach a picture of the two wads in a minute. Very different stack heights. Hand load a couple using the Hodgdon data and swap a 12S0 in and see how they crimp up. Pressure will be around 8000 psi so you are in no danger there. I'm betting the shell will be really dished and you will need the CB6100 to fill the hull.

Good luck View attachment 1755776

Thank you for the reply. This is exactly what I am expecting. I think I will just order the CB6100 was per the Hodgdon data. Now the trick is to figure out what Hornady 366 bushing drops around 16.3. Appreciate the info!

 

[rrliess]

I have been experimenting with the Federal Grand hulls. The 12S0 is same as CB2100-12. In Top guns I use CB2100 for 1oz loads. I too am out of Clays, but have 700X. This is the recipe from Hodgdon that I used for 1 box that I tried and really like, and am about to make several cases to use.
700X 16gr. I am using a PW 800+ using G1 for powder 1 1/8 #8 shot 1100 fps and Nobel primer with CB6118-12 wad. I have never used IMR red
Good luck

Thank you for the reply. My pre Clays go to was 700X. Hard time getting it as well. I will post how it goes.

 

[Nebs]

If it's of any help, I use a lot of IMR Red and I use a 366. I find a #426 drops 18 gr. It's denser than Red Dot, in my experience. On that basis, i would go with the taller wad. I use it in AAHS hulls and find I need to use a regular wad (instead of the shorter DRA12) to get good crimps.

 

[rrliess]

If it's of any help, I use a lot of IMR Red and I use a 366. I find a #426 drops 18 gr. It's denser than Red Dot, in my experience. On that basis, i would go with the taller wad. I use it in AAHS hulls and find I need to use a regular wad (instead of the shorter DRA12) to get good crimps.

Nebs, Thank you for that information. That is the missing piece of he puzzle for me. Hodgdon has no published data, and this is great information. I was going to start with the 429 bushing and measure it. Looks like I am going to have to put an order in to Hornady for several sizes smaller. I found some Claybuster 6100s, and I am going to give them a try. Appreciate the info!

 

[Nebs]

In my experience, it pays to have a "library" of bushings for the 366. The charts are never right and you always have to either go up or down a bushing or 2 to get where you need to be. And with the availability of so many powders with such different densities, you need a bushing selection to handle whatever might land in your powder inventory. Since you likely will only be charged a single shipping fee, order as many as your conscience/budget will allow.

And the fact Hodgdon has no data for the load you are wanting to make tells me maybe Red is not the best powder for a 1 oz. load in a straight walled hull going that slow. And there is a significant pressure difference between the 12S0 and the 6100. Because the pressures will be lower, be prepared for dirt. My recommendation would be to use the listed 1200 fps load with the 12S0 wad.

 

[birdk9]

Nebs you are correct to be prepared for dirt. It will be a low pressure load. The Hodgdon data shows three loads for the CB6100 wad. It does not show data for 12S0 or clones. I personally would drop almost 18 grains to get the pressure up for a cleaner more consistent burn. 8500 psi is the lowest I go. Any lower and I have chunks left over in the barrel. I can deal with the recoil from speed but cleaning the grits out is a pain. I shoot a ported Browning. Come to think of it, it may be a way to plug the ports.

 

[Nebs]

Nebs you are correct to be prepared for dirt. It will be a low pressure load. The Hodgdon data shows three loads for the CB6100 wad. It does not show data for 12S0 or clones. I personally would drop almost 18 grains to get the pressure up for a cleaner more consistent burn. 8500 psi is the lowest I go. Any lower and I have chunks left over in the barrel. I can deal with the recoil from speed but cleaning the grits out is a pain. I shoot a ported Browning. Come to think of it, it may be a way to plug the ports.

View attachment 1755815

My printed manual shows a load using the 12S0-18 gr.=8300 psi at 1200fps. It also shows 18 gr. with the 6100 wad as making only 6600 psi at 1200 fps. My manual is 2018. Recall that when Hodgdon first released Red, it copied the Red Dot data verbatim from Alliant. Might be what I have.

 

[ggmshoots4fun]

This is comparing apples to oranges as I use a different hull/wad/primer, but I will agree that low pressure loads will be very dirty. In another time, I would use a different powder.

 

[Shooting Coach]

https://hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/mec_bushing_chart-2017.pdf