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Most shooters would gain no advantage from fast or plated shot loads. They simply aren't good enough to have an illegal shell improve their score. The really good shooters may see some advantage. You should see some of the expensive fancy ammo people use in sporting clays events. They still shoot poorly. It isn't the bow or arrow. It is the Indian.
 

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Pretty hard to enforce if you think of it. Shells that have been fired have nothing for you to check. Shells in one's possession have not been fired so they have not been shot illegally. Sort of a catch 22. Just seems to me a tough rule to try and enforce. Good shooting, Rey
That reminds me of the situation where a co-worker was followed into the parking lot at work and arrested for DWI, but not fired because he hadn't punched in drunk.Seems one could stop them in the middle of a round where they'd fired part of of a box.....
I've shot my 1200 1 1/8 loads for Annies and still broke targets fine past 40 yards, FWIW. I still prefer Nitro 27's for Annies, but regular velocity shells do work.
 

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The goal is to get the gun pointed correctly at the target. Makes no difference what shell is in the gun if it is not pointed correctly.
 

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I think the rules say (and I could very well be mistaken) that calling someone out on a shell violation has to be done at a time when it doesn't interfere with the shoot, or something along those lines.
 

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I agree with pheasantmaster let them shoot them ,I've seen shooters at our own club shooters ruin themselves because they think they need big boomers to hit anything, cheap 3 dram Walmart shells have ruined more trapshooters than probably any other factor. Many time at registered shoots I have seen newer shooters use nitros or superhandicaps for singles and if you watch their scores their scores over a 3 day shoot they just keep getting worse and worse.Jerry
 

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For the most part, I subscribe to the Rodney King thought: "Can't we all JUST GET ALONG?" (emphasis added). That said, I currently believe that about 70% of people around us are not only ignorant of rules but do NOT care about them anyway. Everyone has RIGHTS! Only the institutions that serve us have RESPONSIBILITIES! Think about this the next time you find evidence of an "illegal" act...a super shotshell or the moron who races past you above the speed limit while phone texting. Ignorance and irresponsible behavior is everywhere...even in trapshooting. Have a Nice Day...
 

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I am a dumpster diver for both hulls and boxes and have recently found some interesting stuff in the trash cans at registered shoots . I have found both hulls ( which appear to be once fired) and boxes ( which are sealed and not marked as reloads) that would indicated the ammo used were not within ATA rules. I'm not much on the ATA's "Speed Limit" since American Trap is the ONLY game in town that has a speed restriction but , rules are still rules and it seems a lot of folks either don't read the rule book or choose to ignore it in this department. The biggest finds seem to be both Win. and Remington hulls and boxes, that are marked 1300 FPS Sporting Clay loads. Another one is Win. Super Speed 1 oz. loads marked 1350 FPS ( 25 FPS over the limit for 1 oz. loads). I have even some Winchester "Diamond Grade" hulls and boxes. Of course these shells have copper plated shot which is ILLEGAL to use in ATA competition. Usually ,even if somebody is reloading and putting shells in a BOX so marked , Those boxes are marked as reloads with labels showing the reloading data on them ( I know mine are ). As I said ,While I may not be a fan of the ATA's Speed limit" rules, they ARE still RULES and everybody should be following them. If this was just a once in while thing that would really be no big deal but it seems to be happening a lot now.
i had just bought my first firearm ever, a mossberg 500 that came w 2 barrels - 18" & 27". i asked the guy who sold it to me what the longer barrel was for and he told me you use the longer one for hunting or trap / skeet. he also told me there was a public range where you could shoot trap not too far away ... he sold me a few boxes of gun clubs and off i went. on my first try maybe i broke 5 targets - shocked i hit even 1, i chalked it up as a good day. i any case, i kept coming back. pretty quick the "good shooters" at this place starting giving me advice ... they all shot AA 1300's so i went out and got some too. faster's got to be better, right?

anyway ... i keep at it and after about a year i go to my frist ATA shoot. it was a zone shoot so a pretty big event. I read the rules so knew i couldn't use my trusty 1300s so i found some WInchester Super something or other that were 1290 fps. i end up on a squad shooting next to very nice woman who happens to a AA class shooter with quite a few state championships ... we're chatting after the 1st 100 birds and she asks me why I'm using those 1290s for SIngles. I confidently reply that faster is better. At this point I have no idea who she is but she did pretty good on the 1st 100 ... i don't remember if it was 95 or 96 ... but clearly she was worth listening to. In any case, she goes on to explain that I'm handicapping myself at 16yds by using such a hot load ... the pattern doesn't have time to expand ... from 16yds a slower shell is actually better, 1145's are ideal and there's a lot less recoil. It made a lot of sense and after those that 1st 100 my shoulder was def feeling the effects of 1 1/8's @1290FPS.

Turns out it was some of the best advice I've ever gotten, from that day on I started shooting 1145s for singles and have never looked back. In fact for me for singles I use the lightest 1oz load possible. Caps is another story ... ATA i'm still at 20yds where 1200's are just fine, in my league they put me a little farther back to the 24 and i do pretty well with 1 1/18 @ 1235.

My long winded point ... I'm not worried at all about the guys who break the rules with shells faster that 1290. As another commented said ... they're prob not much of a threat in competition.

Oh and those guys at the public club who told me to use the sporting clays shells ... looking back, they we're only breaking 17 or 18 a round with lots of fist pumping when someone broke over 20.
 

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Vic Reinder had a small collection of reloads that shooters picked up while shooting the Grand American over the years. He use to say that any time you shoot for money there will a small percentage of people who will try to get an advantage on their competitor's by using hot loads. He would say that money has always drawn out the chiselers. In my 50 years of trapshooting, I have only seen one time where management requested shells from a shooter to test and replaced them with new loads.

Shooting non registered money shoots and using ATA rules, I have seen some shells being used that would make a fellow competitor jump they were so loud.

Truthfully, some shooters have a desire, a want, to break the rules in an attempt to gain an advantage. In my opinion, it hurts their shooting and the game more then it helps.
Steve Balistreri
Wauwatosa Wisconsin
 

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I have been told by friends who Cronograph their shells that they are well over 1,300 fps for 1 1/8 of 7 1/2's. Are these shells illegal? If the answer is yes then Winchester AA super handicaps have a problem.

Now there is the question, is the Cronograph accurate and been tested? Are the folks testing these loads doing it properly? Is anybody going to test a top shooters factory ammo and disqualify there score?

Now we can talk about reloads, has anyone ever seen a reload Cronographed and has the shooter been disqualified for a overspeed load? Personally I have never seen this and I have been shooting for 40 years.

I can see a shooter being disqualified for shooting #6 shot, I can see them being disqualified for shooting 1 1/4 of shot. How about a factory shell cut open and being overweight or having # 6 shot found in the shell. Would this be reason for disqualification?

I personally find a lot of talk about ammo and nobody willing to open the Pandoras Box of testing Ammo. If it's a factory shell within spec of the ATA/PITA ruling it's good to go. Someone checking reloads with a Cronograph at a registered shoot then can expect ridicule of the way it was tested or is the Cronograph accurate? Just my opinion but there has been talk about Ammo for years and I've never seen a shell tested or a shooter disqualified.

If Tim brought his testing equipment to Witchita and was asked to test Ammo by club officers would it be considered gospel that it was done correctly and people ejected from the grounds. Does anyone want to address this slippery slope of is the equipment been adequately certified as accurate. Just my opinion and this isn't worth a lot.

PD
 

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The WHY (muzzle velocity, shot size, plated shot)...I really don't know. International trap allows plated shot. I think NSCA does too. None of the other major organizations (NSSA, NSCA, FITASC, Olympic, etc.) have a muzzle velocity limitation. Only the ATA that I am aware of.

Many clubs have a limitation on shot size, as you mentioned, because of shot travel distance. I believe clubs are generally arranged to allow 300 yards of shot travel, though that is very conservative for 7-1/2 shot.
Yes, the NSCA allows plated shot. Otherwise, Winchester would have made a huge mistake with their Diamond shells. I believe the niche market for Diamond is the FITASC guys and gals though I'm sure the other sporting disciplines will take advantage of the Diamond stuff if they want to.
 

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i had just bought my first firearm ever, a mossberg 500 that came w 2 barrels - 18" & 27". i asked the guy who sold it to me what the longer barrel was for and he told me you use the longer one for hunting or trap / skeet. he also told me there was a public range where you could shoot trap not too far away ... he sold me a few boxes of gun clubs and off i went. on my first try maybe i broke 5 targets - shocked i hit even 1, i chalked it up as a good day. i any case, i kept coming back. pretty quick the "good shooters" at this place starting giving me advice ... they all shot AA 1300's so i went out and got some too. faster's got to be better, right?

anyway ... i keep at it and after about a year i go to my frist ATA shoot. it was a zone shoot so a pretty big event. I read the rules so knew i couldn't use my trusty 1300s so i found some WInchester Super something or other that were 1290 fps. i end up on a squad shooting next to very nice woman who happens to a AA class shooter with quite a few state championships ... we're chatting after the 1st 100 birds and she asks me why I'm using those 1290s for SIngles. I confidently reply that faster is better. At this point I have no idea who she is but she did pretty good on the 1st 100 ... i don't remember if it was 95 or 96 ... but clearly she was worth listening to. In any case, she goes on to explain that I'm handicapping myself at 16yds by using such a hot load ... the pattern doesn't have time to expand ... from 16yds a slower shell is actually better, 1145's are ideal and there's a lot less recoil. It made a lot of sense and after those that 1st 100 my shoulder was def feeling the effects of 1 1/8's @1290FPS.

Turns out it was some of the best advice I've ever gotten, from that day on I started shooting 1145s for singles and have never looked back. In fact for me for singles I use the lightest 1oz load possible. Caps is another story ... ATA i'm still at 20yds where 1200's are just fine, in my league they put me a little farther back to the 24 and i do pretty well with 1 1/18 @ 1235.

I used to shoot reloads with 15.8 grains of Rex 1 and 1 1/8 of 8's or #9 shot. I ran lots of 100's with those shells and they just ink balled targets. Now days with Bio Degradable White Flyers I wouldn't consider shooting these. A friend of mine asked if he could take a box of my reloads with him to Cronograph and I said sure. He checked 10 of them and they Cronographed at 1,110 fps and all 10 were within 5 fps. He told me they were the most accurate reloads he had ever checked and asked how I loaded them. I told him with a PW 900 with a electric motor drive. No pulling the handle, just keep your foot on the pedal and the machine never stops.
 

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While I do believe my Remington Nitros are a Quality Product, but when I finish up the four flats I have I’m going to STS 3dr load for handicap.
Why even with a Remington Auto that weights around 10lbs. I do not stay in the gun as well as a lighter load.
I also think the ATA rule for shells should be by Weight and stick with
1 1/8oz Max not to exceed 3% this to include Factory Shells yes the Manufactures need to adhere to this.
If some one wants to shoot screaming fast shells go for it, the ATA can drop the FPS rule. As far as I’m concerned.
I would keep the no plated shot rule.
I also have no problem with a New shells rule for all State Shoots for Handicap or larger shoots when Management directs it.
 

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While I do believe my Remington Nitros are a Quality Product, but when I finish up the four flats I have I’m going to STS 3dr load for handicap.
Why even with a Remington Auto that weights around 10lbs. I do not stay in the gun as well as a lighter load.
I also think the ATA rule for shells should be by Weight and stick with
1 1/8oz Max not to exceed 3% this to include Factory Shells yes the Manufactures need to adhere to this.
If some one wants to shoot screaming fast shells go for it, the ATA can drop the FPS rule. As far as I’m concerned.
I would keep the no plated shot rule.
I also have no problem with a New shells rule for all State Shoots for Handicap or larger shoots when Management directs it.
When you say “all State Shoots....or larger shoots....” does that include The Grand and all Satellite Shoots?
 

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While I do believe my Remington Nitros are a Quality Product, but when I finish up the four flats I have I’m going to STS 3dr load for handicap.
Why even with a Remington Auto that weights around 10lbs. I do not stay in the gun as well as a lighter load.
I also think the ATA rule for shells should be by Weight and stick with
1 1/8oz Max not to exceed 3% this to include Factory Shells yes the Manufactures need to adhere to this.
If some one wants to shoot screaming fast shells go for it, the ATA can drop the FPS rule. As far as I’m concerned.
I would keep the no plated shot rule.
I also have no problem with a New shells rule for all State Shoots for Handicap or larger shoots when Management directs it.
The only ATA shoot that requires Factory NEW ammunition, are the Handicap events at the Grand American.
Reloads are legal for all other shoots.
MG
 

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If you see someone opening boxes of Sporting Clays ammo (1300FPS) and getting ready to shoot, say something. I did once because a guy had a 4 box holder of illegal factory shells on the table getting ready to shoot. Everyone else also told him his shells were illegal he went and got some other shells before we started the handicap while we waited. He shot in the low 80’s with the correct shells and I’m sure he was rattled a bit getting caught. He was a long time shooter that was shooting from the 27 with us. Looking for an edge in the main handicap is what I was left thinking. Follow the rules as they aren’t hard until someday they may be changed.
 

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I have to agree with Tim on limits. To me it really doesn’t make that big a difference. As Pheasantmaster said let em go, golf is probably right around the corner. Interesting anecdote, yesterday at Redlands I was shooting the last three boxes of nitros in the flat. The last couple boxes really seemed to be quite stout, so when we finally looked at the shells, the box was marked nitro handicap but most of the shells were marked gold sporting clays. As someone who shoots 3 dram 1200 shells for handicap I think the nitros are great shells, just more than I need and the sporting clay shells definitely more than I would ever need.
 
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