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Discussion Starter #1
I shoot a few different older trap guns and still use some vintage reloading components in my Federal and Alcan paper handloads. Alcan used to make a couple of different plastic OP/gas seal wads, and I'm familiar with them.

But I got a bag of different 12-ga plastic OP/gas seals that aren't Alcan when I bought a bunch of old wads. Here are a couple of photos. Do any of you old timers know what brand they might be? The side that faces the powder is an open cup (the left image); the other side has a number of reinforcing ribs (looks like an asterisk). Unlike their Alcan counterparts, there is no hole through the middle.



TIA,

Tom
 

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That looks like the Herter's.
You are right the Alcan Air Wedge has a hole in the middle and are normally Blue.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Here are a couple of images of an Alcan Air Wedge - you can see that they're different from my "mystery" (Herter's) version. The first photo is of the top and the other of the bottom. (Note the hole in the middle.)






The plastic Alcan wads are covered in the 2nd Edition of Lyman's Shotshell Handbook, but not the Herter's. I don't have the 1st Edition - if any of you do, maybe you could check and see if the Herter's wads are in there?






Thanks,

Tom
 

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Tom, the first edition has basically the same information.
From Alcan, Winchester, Remington, Federal, and some pictures of Wanda wads.
No Herter's.

I looked them up in the number 78-1968 Herter's catalog.
I shot a lot of them @$1.79 per 1000.
I load for vintage guns also and still have a lot of Alcan and Herter's wading.
Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Ajax - just to confirm, you’re sure they’re Herter’s? I will likely just use them under some fiber wads. Thanks.
 

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No Herter's Info or images in Lyman's #1
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Thanks for sending the image of the Herter's catalog page - much appreciated.

I don't think mine are Herter's - the ones in the catalog images have some differences from the ones I have. Mine are "simpler" - no "cone in the bottom.”

No matter, really - I am just curious. I'll try them out under some fiber wads and 1-oz trap loads.

Fun playing with this old stuff.

Thanks again,

Tom
 

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I used the Air Wedge wad plus fiber filler wads in 1958 -1964. When plastic unit wads began to be produced I switched to single unit wads. I believe the Win-Wad by Winchester with cardboard insert was the first I used. I could not find one to picture and post. I then used several other single unit wads. The Flite Max worked well. All of my reloads in that time period were with paper shells, mostly Western/Winchester.

I must apologize I made some mistakes when uploading images.
 

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Thanks, murphya - these are great photos & great info. I never heard of the Sullivan Arms Corporation. And the plastic wad in the lower left of your photo (the one next to the words "Sullivan Sac" that looks like it has writing on the back) is identical to the ones I ended up with - so mystery solved.

I still have a s**tload of old fiber, and cork wads, along with a bunch of Alcan Air Wedges, Kwik-Serts and these Sullivan SACs - I load them now & then for a few of my vintage trap loads. There's something enjoyable about feeding these old guns the same stuff they cut their teeth on when young ;-)

Thanks again.
 

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Tom, Thank you for the interest. I used the Sac wad as a replacement for the Air Wedge. They were fine but the plastic became very hard after firing. The AW remained very flexible and I would collect them and they worked as if new. I was in my late teens at that time and tried to save when possible. I have included some reloading data from the Sullivan manual. This info was for paper hulls. The powder charges were a bit stout compared to today. Many of the powders used are still available though it might take some searching to find some. PB was a great powder. I want to note that the Hi-Skor listed is not the 700 X used today. I did use it and did not have a problem. I understand DuPont replaced Hi-Skor with 700 X as there were problems. I am not aware as to the nature of the concerns. The writing on the back of the Sac wad is mine. I put Sullivan to ID it. The wad next to it had been used.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Thanks - all interesting stuff. I'm using lighter Federal paper reloads made up with 18 gr of Clays under my Air-Wedge (& fiber wad) loads. I think these "book" as 2-3/4 dram equivalent (1180 fps) loads using 1 oz of shot. They seem fairly mild (& break targets) in my old guns. Will try the SAC wads at some point with this load.

Thanks again.
 

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If you're shooting a break open gun, I shoot SxSs, then shoot some black powder. Sometimes you can't see if the target was hit or missed. The hump back autos will also work with smoke. With the BO guns it only takes a bucket of clean hot water, and one with soap in it. Take the barrel off the gun, push the muzzle in the water and with a tight fitting patch work it up and down. The water will go with it. After the soapy water put it in the clean water and repeat. Then a couple of dry patches, one with WD-40 and then a final one with Rem Oil and you're down. Takes just a couple of minutes. Shoot the black powder will make you have a new respect of the guys who would shoot a 100 or more shots at a tournament in one day with the stuff. I go to SxS shoots and sometimes shoot just smoke. After a 100 or 150 shoots it seems like I have a new bore and choke. Some guys keep a spray bottle on their hip and shoot some water down the bore every couple of shots.
 

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I once used, and last year od so finally threw out the last couple hundred I had, some ALCAN PGS (which stood for Power Gas Seal) wads and the box they came in. It was a light blue plastic wad (as I recall) that went on the powder and was then followed by cork or felt wads in a size needed to fill the space properly and then on top of the wad stack a butterfly shaped flat plastic piece that formed in to a shot protector. That was call a Quik-Sert as I recall. Those were all from the 1960-early 70's era. I still have a small assortment of some of the Alcan Flite-Max wads and some AL-7 powder which is used in a .40 S&W load and still works just fine.
 
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