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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know Remington totally F'd up the new 20-gauge Remington gun clubs by going to some cheap primer, DIRTY as all get out powder, and inconsistent hull length (which totally torqued me off), but the hope was that Remington would not do this to the factory 12-gauge hulls.

Well, what's good for the goose is good for the gander I guess...

I picked up some once-fired 12-gauge black Remingtons on the field the other day, and I was amazed at how many had pierced primers. The new Remington primers look just like retail-grade Winchester primers which really sucks, because when you see them laying on the ground, they look they someone else's reloads. But I know the ones were factory shells, because I watched the people take them out of the case and fire them.

Peoples firing pins are seriously gonna get hammered and torched-up from the plasma of all of these pierced primers.





Anyone else seen this on the new-style Remington Gunclubs (and Gameloads) ?
 

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I noticed that with my Citori Crossover target that I pierce quite a few gun club factory primers(all gold color, supposedly Sts primers) and also pierce the factory Super x winchester game load primers. I have yet to pierce a reload primer though. I've used old and new federal primers as well as winchesters. My firing pins look pretty ugly, but it still works.
 

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Yep, been like that for a while now, ever since the GCs and field loads went to that style primer, which I suspect is an differently colored Cheddite (the only other primer out there that has as bad piercing problems). A flat of 20ga gun clubs cooked a brand new pair of firing pins in my kolar back in 2010.
 

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Pierced primers for me also......3 flats - Factory Remington Dove loads (gun club type hull) 12 ga 1-1/8 1255 fps
SHUR-SHOT purchased at Academy Sports last month.

Happened w/my Perazzi MX & never had any pierced primers before. Shot all kinds
of factory promo loads since & no problem w/ Federal, Winchester, RIO.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I wonder why (if?) no one has attempted to contact Remington about this ?

If I owned a Perazzi, or K-gun, and didn't reload, and shot a lot of factory shells (for competition etc.), I think I'd be pretty pissed especially since Remington made this change on the QT without announcing it.

Some may have seen my grumblings in the other forum about the new yellow 20-gauge Remington Gunclubs (specifically about hull length, and it unknowingly causing crimp depths of .090 instead of .055), but also about how dirty the new power is that they are using in these hulls. Remington Gun clubs, both, in 12, and 20-gauge used to be known for how clean the propriety was that they were using in these hulls. The power now used in their new 20-gauge Gun clubs is SO dirty, that it's caused problems in my 20-ga 1100 twice now. It's at least 2X times dirtier than any of the Rex powders that used to be out there.

At the same time, the retail Remington 209P primers used to be (and still may be) touted at one of the best primers out there (in terms of consistency, cold temperature stability etc.), albeit a colder primer when compared to the Winchester W209 baseline.

At the same time, the Remington 209P's have gotten so expensive that they are at least 2X+ more expensive than any other primer, even some of State-side competitors primers.

So the question becomes, did Remington just cheap out on the primer used for factory shells, and are still maintaining the quality 209P's for retail/consumer consumption?. Maybe this explains the reason why the retail version of the 209P's are so expensive? i.e., no more quantity discounts because Remington themselves are no longer using their own 209P's in their factory ammo.

The other question is, how widespread is this situation? Is it happening with the current Remington STS's too (as well as the cheaper gunclubs) ?

As some here know, I'm pretty much exclusively loading the clear Fiocchi's in 12-gauge, and the Federal "Top Gun's" (with paper base wad) in 20 gauge, both of which are straight-wall hulls. I also no longer pick up once-fired AA HS's in 12 when I see them on the field mainly because of the "thin rim" situation (as well as too short of a hull length), and bad interoperability in the Browning Citori's.

So it seem that I now need to start passing up once-fired Gunclubs when I see them laying on the field. And as I've mentioned before, that's not hard to do anyhow, at least in 20 gauge since the dirty powder used in them coupled with the "W209-looking" primer, makes them indistinguishable from someone Else's reloads (someone reloading with W209's with some dirty powder).
 

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I went through three flats of nitros and two flats of sts shells (the wife shot about half) last weekend during our state shoot, along with about a case and a half of the gun clubs. Amazingly not one pierced primer. Maybe it's a few bad lots of the gun clubs with the primer piercing issue? I never thought to check and log down the lot #s, but will do the next time I start using my factory ammo.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Do the STS's/Nitro's also use these new cheap primers that look like retail Winchester W209's (like shown in the above hulls) ?
 

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I picked up a bunch of once fired GCS last year that looked just like those. Thought it was an isolated incident. Will look closer now.
 

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Not even close to an isolated incident. It's been an issue with the 20ga Gun Clubs since 2010. Its now an issue w/ the 12ga and 20ga Game Loads since the past couple years, and apparently now with the 12ga Gun Clubs as well (note the box says "STS primer mixture" now, and not "STS primer").
 

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Primer strikes seem pretty deep. These primers not set in like the others? It looks like they are now, but what about before firing?
 

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I also do not think this is at all an isolated instance. I have been having primer piercing trouble with 20 ga GCs for years and will no longer buy them. I have not had any issue with STS shells so far and indeed the primers in the STS look like reloading 209s while the junk they are putting in GCs (and I guess now some hunting loads) are visually different in the color of the primer cup metal.

I don't think everybody will have issues every time. My k80 pierces them regularly (hence I don't shoot them anymore...already had to replace firing pins) but my Kolar does not. There is nothing wrong with either gun. It just seems to me that the primers they are using now are really borderline acceptable and some guns will work with them but a very large population of guns will pierce. They hosed up a good product.
 

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Sounds like the primers are using a soft metal. I'm working through a couple flats of 20 ga gun clubs and see the primers are indented deeper than my reload shells.
 
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