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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I shoot using a high hold point and make only a slight upward but mostly horizontal movement with the gun to take the targets well before the peak. Most of the time everything works great, but then there are weekends like this last one. Singles were typical and I ran them and was pretty much smokeballing all of them. Then came handicap. I made my usual adjustments, but the wind had shifted by this time. I have difficulty telling if targets are high or not. Once I know, I can make my adjustments to my hold points and everything is fine. But, this time I was fooled by either the background, the different height of the traphouse out of the ground or something and it destroyed my score. I adjusted up but didn't break two targets, so I assumed I had gone the wrong way and adjusted down. By the time I figured out they were way high, it was too late.

How do you judge whether targets are high or low given that backgrounds and traphouse construction changes. I know somebody is going to say something like hold down on the traphouse or some such non helpful advice. High gun shooters, how do you make your adjustments and how do you decide how targets are set?
 

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Perazzi MX2000 31.5/34 combo with a prosoft
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My advice to you, sir, is that if you can’t figure out what works, don’t try to control the advice you’re going to receive. Dismissing advice before it’s given is why you’re in the predicament you’re in most likely.

For what it’s worth, I hold a high gun for singles and lower for handicap. But I’ve come down a lot over the years and both averages and consistency has improved. If you’re not willing to drop your hold, the best bet is to look at the height of a trap from level ground and ignore the background for hold. Then look at the distance from Apex to top of house for bird height.

But we are also missing critical details… what’s your yardage? What’s your typical handicap score vs. this fateful day.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
My only reason for that statement is exactly that. Someone who holds low saying theirs is the only way. I'm starting shooting after a few years off but was AA 27yd when I stopped. There are medical reasons for why I stopped and need to use a high hold. At the Grand I broke 97,98,95 in handicap. I've had a couple of 98's since and hope to be back to the 27 by January
 

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Perazzi MX2000 31.5/34 combo with a prosoft
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My only reason for that statement is exactly that. Someone who holds low saying theirs is the only way. I'm starting shooting after a few years off but was AA 27yd when I stopped. There are medical reasons for why I stopped and need to use a high hold. At the Grand I broke 97,98,95 in handicap. I've had a couple of 98's since and hope to be back to the 27 by January
If you were 27 when you quit and you have broken scores that should have given you AT LEAST 4 yards, likely more, I have two other questions…
What were the circumstances that led to your being reduced so far forward? A special request to the CHC due to your medical issues? Just curious.

Without knowing your current yardage, it’s difficult to give you sound advice. Sounds like you had a bad day from yardage a little farther back. When I struggle in caps pointing targets or getting a read on height, I drop my hold. You can try changing where you look for the target. If you physically can’t hold lower, that’s your only option. That and just watch the targets harder.

Phil Kiner will tell you he doesn’t do anything different than the other guy with the gun. Be he will look at a target harder than anyone else out there. When the targets are variable, Stare harder.
 

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I would think some of what you are experiencing could be as follows:

1. If you are holding a high gun...how high and how high is your POI to work with your high gun hold?

Normally if you are shooting a high gun and have say a 15 in. high poi you normally only should try adjusting a front bead width at a time to start with.

2.If the targets were as you stated high or higher did you feel like you were taken out of your normal rhythm of shooting your caps targets and had a visual disconnect? Meaning picking up your head off the comb and peaking as the target were not where you were looking?

That is why some would say lower you hold point a bit so you would get a visual on the flight line of the target sooner.

3.Personally how do I tell if the targets are high vs. the background? If it is a blue sky club and flat background I take everything at face value and use my normal hold point...if it is a club where there is a hill side going up and away from the trap house to me that gives a bit of a illusion of the target being low. Just a personal feeling as every one is different.

4.If you are burning 98-97-95 at the grand then it sound like you just had a bad day.
 

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My only reason for that statement is exactly that. Someone who holds low saying theirs is the only way. I'm starting shooting after a few years off but was AA 27yd when I stopped. There are medical reasons for why I stopped and need to use a high hold. At the Grand I broke 97,98,95 in handicap. I've had a couple of 98's since and hope to be back to the 27 by January
So from doing some basic research on your postings were you shooting your 1970s era perazzi comp 1 or were you shooting your new parts perazzi with the unsingle that shoots 18in. high when you had the bad round?

Am I correct to say when you were at the Grand you were shooting your comp 1 when you shot the 97-98-95 in caps?
 

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3.Personally how do I tell if the targets are high vs. the background? If it is a blue sky club and flat background I take everything at face value and use my normal hold point...if it is a club where there is a hill side going up and away from the trap house to me that gives a bit of a illusion of the target being low. Just a personal feeling as every one is different.
Everyone laughs when I pull out my match book at the 27 yard line to check the target height - back in the 60's that is how we set targets, solved many a argument -- Today you can't find a book of matches!
 

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Perazzi MX2000 31.5/34 combo with a prosoft
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Actually, it was Dick Bennett who wrote that little gem. Trap Shooting is a Game of Opposites is my most referenced book so far on this adventure.
I thought he was referencing a quote! I wasn’t aware of the title. The little book of trapshooting states almost exactly that. Little May have been referencing that book indirectly!
 

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One Saturday, when it was all said and done I went home to enough medicine to knock out the pollen allergies which while desperately needed would have kept me from shooting at all, I went home with a 190 of 200.

The next Saturday I was down 12 in the first 100. Before the 100 was over I made the adjustment of holding lower. Now I am already holding on the front edge of the house, so I went several feet lower.
I still can't figure out why I jumping though the bird but making more time to see the bird got me a finish of 50 straight.

Is your hold point giving you the vision of the bird you need to make a smooth move to break it? Reaction shots work unless their is a panic in it. Then what I describe as jumping through the bird happens, at that point the gun is moving to fast for the visual lead you are used.

I have tried high olds from time to time. If the bird is blocked from my view in anyway my head comes of the gun to find it, lost Everytime!

In practice have someone put dollar bills between your cheek and the stock. Tell us how many hit the ground? Then when you shoot for scores does it feel the same?

Al
 

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I am a high gun, two eyed shooter. When I get to a field I will look out to a spot in the background with my line of sight parallel to the ground. (Basically, I look straight out.) I mount the gun below this point. I may pick out a spot in the background or a height above the trap house for reference for consistency in gun placement, but the initial set-up is relative to my eye-hold as trap house height or background may change. I use the parallel line of sight as my visual reference. I evaluate how quickly the target rises to my eye hold and I evaluate the speed and trajectory after it passes the eye hold point. If the target passes through the pick-up zone (flight of the target before I start my move) quicker than normal I will raise my eye-hold. I only raise the gun hold if my eye hold gets too far above the gun. This happens more at the 16 yard line. I will usually raise my eye hold and not the gun hold at 27 yard line if the targets are high and pass through the zone faster than usual. If the wind is picking targets up I will make an adjustment if the wind is noticeably affecting the target flight before my normal break point. I am a relatively fast shooter so there are times that the wind picks up targets but not enough to affect my shot.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
So from doing some basic research on your postings were you shooting your 1970s era perazzi comp 1 or were you shooting your new parts perazzi with the unsingle that shoots 18in. high when you had the bad round?

Am I correct to say when you were at the Grand you were shooting your comp 1 when you shot the 97-98-95 in caps?

I was shooting the same gun at the Grand. I built it there from 3 guns. I use the 18" high unsingle for singles and handicap.

Don't do too much research. You might not want to find some things out.
 

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I was shooting the same gun at the Grand. I built it there from 3 guns. I use the 18" high unsingle for singles and handicap.

Don't do too much research. You might not want to find some things out.
LOL...! well research is part of my job and yep ya never know what comes to the top.

I had notice the post that you put up where you stated that you had purchased the parts at the grand to put together your Perazzi that shoots 18 in high, so it I am understanding what you are telling me is that you took a shotgun that you put together out of parts and shot 97-98-95 with it at the same tournament then it must really be clicking for you.

So having a off day with that shotgun might just be a hi cup of sorts. You mentioned that you were adding filler and the like to the stock along the way so did you make some changes to the shotgun that were post grand and took you in a different direction fit wise??

For me shooting a shotgun that shoot that high can be a bit unforgiving at times esp. if the center of your pattern is at the 18 in. high. I have one CG that is set up shooting alittle over 12 in. high and that works for me.

So if you assembled that gun out of parts and shot some really good caps scores with it right after assembly and basic fit you did good. The best I have ever been able to do with a parts P gun was when we finished final assembly on a 34" O/U RS model parts gun and I shot a 100 straight in a morning singles event. Loved that gun and sorry I ever sold it.....then again how many of us say that;)
 
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