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Discussion Starter #1
Looking for a bit of feedback from those already using high-ribs please. I've shot for many years now mainly at DTL but with a conventional rib on a sporter (K80 SuperSport). I have been reasonably successful with that (best 98 ignoring 2nd barrels) with a good few 75's but the illusive 100 has evaded all attempts. Being practical I know that the combination of me and the gun I've had is probably as good as "all the gear" is going to get me but I've been seduced by the hype around high-ribs and I've bought a DT11 X-Trap; I know it's not going to magically make the 100 appear without further ado but, just like most us of us might admit, a bit more kit is simply a nice to have if nothing else (my excuse anyway). So the question; what I've been doing for years is to track the clay, quickly and go fractionally above it (so that the barrels just cover it) and fire. What I want to do with the X-Trap is to just have the clay hanging just in sight, on the sight, on the tip of the barrels. Problem seems to be that I can't get the barrel adjusted enough to achieve the required sight picture; I've been told that I should have the front adjuster on the "1" and the front depressed as far as it will go but I find Iam still covering the clay as I shoot if I want (as I do!) to hit it. My past experience is telling me that I am probably over thinking and looking too hard for a picture that's at odds with the K80 set-up and the fact is that I've already managed to mess with my own head on this too much. Any advice happy received please as well as a bit of "technical" advice" on the matter of how to set up the rib (and stock which I know might need some more thought) for the gun to shoot as high as possible.
 

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What's POI at 16/30 yards? Im at or just shy of 100% high and if I were to guess there's about a 1" gap between my bead and bird when I pull the trigger. I rarely see my barrel though. If I do it means I'm not focused on the target, I flinched or I lifted my head slightly. Usually all three :(
If you haven't yet, pattern it. If you have share your results as it will help us help you!
 

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Yes, listen to Wad's constant advise and you too may some day have a 90 singles average.

Btw, you folks over there in GB ever hear of the Troll Challenge?
 

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Mine is set up about the same as Wadhopper's and when I miss its my fault. Steve
When I pattern it's mainly to get the gun shooting where I look. I'm not counting holes or plugging numbers into a program. If you're having to cover the bird, raise the rear and lower the front of your rib. You can add washers to the comb as needed to also raise poi. Check your length of pull by laying the pad in the crook of your elbow and see where your index finger lies on the trigger. It should allow your finger to find the trigger with ease (no reaching or past the first pad of finger). If your patterns left, move comb left and vise-versa. After you've achieved a satisfactory result, stand up and shoot the paper assuming your natural shooting stance and compare poi. Notice cheek pressure on the stock and maintain consistency.
Go to the range and focus on keeping your head down and seeing the target. You should be able to forget about the barrel at this point, you already know where your pattern is...all you need to do is see the target, shoot the target.
You can fine tune all you want but if you're not sure where your pattern is you're screwed.
Read your breaks. If consistently taking off the bottom add a washer, nailing the right side and watching chunks of the target flying left? Move your comb left. You'll find a sweet spot that'll literally smoke every target you call and if you miss you'll know it's all on you!
And then the wind will throw all this out the window as you pull the trigger and watch the target jump past your shot-string...
These are all things that have helped put me on target. I'm not a great shooter by any means but I have a great coach, I've read a lot and done my homework on many disciplines in the shooting sports and this is what I've learned about trap.
Yes, listen to Wad's constant advise and you too may some day have a 90 singles average.

Btw, you folks over there in GB ever hear of the Troll Challenge?
Only been shooting since January dork. My advice is sound and comes from a great group of shooters. I share useful information not crap from a troll so give up on your troll challenge, your ego's ruined it.
 

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My apologies to the OP for cluttering up his thread...one last thing to say and I'll move on, my vest is embroidered as to allow fellow forum members to introduce themselves should they so desire. Or in your case, as previously stated, to avoid me if preferred.
Good luck on your mission, Phil. Hope some of the words in this thread will get you headed in the right direction.
 

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Oh, on regards to the patterning board advise, there's a right way and a wrong way. If you don't start your new gun off from a bench rest, you may come to false conclusions and end up chasing your tail.
 

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Oh, on regards to the patterning board advise, there's a right way and a wrong way. If you don't start your new gun off from a bench rest, you may come to false conclusions and end up chasing your tail.
It's there just read carefully...
"After you've achieved satisfactory results, stand up and shoot the paper assuming your natural shooting stance and compare poi"
But thanks for clarifying!
 

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Not knowing your personal POI at the time of your shot and having to cover the clay with the barrels themselves says your POI is way too low. Too low for shooting a rising clay.

Personal POIs mean different things to different people. Some have what I call a leading hand downward jerk and by doing so needs a much higher POI. Either of your guns are so capable of breaking each and every clay properly pointed!! Just think what a score might be if you broke all the targets till the miss was directly the guns fault??

Shotgunning has many basic techniques for success. Becoming one with the gun is first. Imagine an upper body cast that would only allow your eyes to move independently once the gun was mounted for the target attack? Pushing or pulling the gun with the leading hand moves the rear sight a lot more than most think.

One more thing, it's human nature when pointing out something, which is shotgunning a moving clay, to point directly at it? That and not merely guess how much under or over to intersect the two moving objects! That sir, is exactly what your doing via covering the clay with your barrels!! Your merely guessing. Set your guns POI to match your personal timing to the shot whether it be a flat ribbed gun or a high rib model!

Shotgunning a moving target is all about the eyes and making tank turret moves to make the proper connection between the two moving objects!

HAP HalfPenney(?)
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Okay, backing up a step - I've used the pattern board this morning and the photograph attached is typical of the three boards I shot - each at 20 yards with 5x 28g of 7.5 (UK - American=8) shot, plastic wad, DT 11 X-Trap 12g with half-choke (Modified). My point of aim was dead centre. As far as I can determine it seems about 60% below the line with about 60% to the left. Predominantly the "9" segment took the brunt. Where I am thinking (always a mistake) of wanting to hit would be for a DTL clay, centre peg, "sitting" directly in view over the bead at point of trigger pull. In reply to a comment above, no, I do not usually look at the bead / clay relationship keeping my eye firmly on the clay; my point, although I might be making it badly, is that if I did look at the bead the clay would be right there on top of it. I accept that the answer in the end will be to pay an instructor but before that I'd like to at least move the point of impact of the pellets up and to the right - which way should I move the rib and or the stock to achieve this? (and yes, I know it might be like asking "...how long's a piece of string?"!!)
June 30th.jpg
 

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To adjust your POI, move the comb in the direction that you wish to move the POI. The adjustable rib allows you to adjust it to so that you maintain a figure 8 bead alignment.
 

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Agree will Bill. Assuming right hand shooter, you want to move the rear sight (eye) the same direction you want the pattern to move which would be to the right. So you move the adjustable comb posts to facilitate moving the comb to the right as viewed from the rear. Then to move the pattern upward, you need to decline the rib toward the muzzle end. Now adjust height of comb to accommodate your personal preference when looking over the gun (center bead vs front bead relationship). Pattern again to verify results.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Okay, backing up a step - I've used the pattern board this morning and the photograph attached is typical of the three boards I shot - each at 20 yards with 5x 28g of 7.5 (UK - American=8) shot, plastic wad, DT 11 X-Trap 12g with half-choke (Modified). My point of aim was dead centre. As far as I can determine it seems about 60% below the line with about 60% to the left. Predominantly the "9" segment took the brunt. Where I am thinking (always a mistake) of wanting to hit would be for a DTL clay, centre peg, "sitting" directly in view over the bead at point of trigger pull. In reply to a comment above, no, I do not usually look at the bead / clay relationship keeping my eye firmly on the clay; my point, although I might be making it badly, is that if I did look at the bead the clay would be right there on top of it. I accept that the answer in the end will be to pay an instructor but before that I'd like to at least move the point of impact of the pellets up and to the right - which way should I move the rib and or the stock to achieve this? (and yes, I know it might be like asking "...how long's a piece of string?"!!) View attachment 459458
Agree will Bill. Assuming right hand shooter, you want to move the rear sight (eye) the same direction you want the pattern to move which would be to the right. So you move the adjustable comb posts to facilitate moving the comb to the right as viewed from the rear. Then to move the pattern upward, you need to decline the rib toward the muzzle end. Now adjust height of comb to accommodate your personal preference when looking over the gun (center bead vs front bead relationship). Pattern again to verify results.
Many thanks - I am able to shift the comb to the right, no problem, assume that's done. The front of the rib is as low as it will go on the "1" scale and the rear setting is also at one so as things stand I cannot depress the front anymore. Question is should I raise the comb (say) an eighth of an inch and leave the rib alone or should I raise the rear of the rib to "2" and move the front to the lowest on the "2" scale as well? I appreciate that in the end it's going to be trial and error (and probably mostly error) but I want to make sure my direction of travel is sound. High ribs, even in trap, are still pretty new across here and, as might be the case on US grounds, the local "experts" are most often of the kind whose speech muffles when they sit down. So, just to give me something to play with later in the week, assuming the shot is dead centre what's the best way now to get the point of impact dead centre on the card between the numbers 1 & 2 when the point of aim is the cross-hair centre of the target / plate?
 

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Okay, backing up a step - I've used the pattern board this morning and the photograph attached is typical of the three boards I shot - each at 20 yards with 5x 28g of 7.5 (UK - American=8) shot, plastic wad, DT 11 X-Trap 12g with half-choke (Modified). My point of aim was dead centre. As far as I can determine it seems about 60% below the line with about 60% to the left. Predominantly the "9" segment took the brunt. Where I am thinking (always a mistake) of wanting to hit would be for a DTL clay, centre peg, "sitting" directly in view over the bead at point of trigger pull. In reply to a comment above, no, I do not usually look at the bead / clay relationship keeping my eye firmly on the clay; my point, although I might be making it badly, is that if I did look at the bead the clay would be right there on top of it. I accept that the answer in the end will be to pay an instructor but before that I'd like to at least move the point of impact of the pellets up and to the right - which way should I move the rib and or the stock to achieve this? (and yes, I know it might be like asking "...how long's a piece of string?"!!) View attachment 459458


Many thanks - I am able to shift the comb to the right, no problem, assume that's done. The front of the rib is as low as it will go on the "1" scale and the rear setting is also at one so as things stand I cannot depress the front anymore. Question is should I raise the comb (say) an eighth of an inch and leave the rib alone or should I raise the rear of the rib to "2" and move the front to the lowest on the "2" scale as well? I appreciate that in the end it's going to be trial and error (and probably mostly error) but I want to make sure my direction of travel is sound. High ribs, even in trap, are still pretty new across here and, as might be the case on US grounds, the local "experts" are most often of the kind whose speech muffles when they sit down. So, just to give me something to play with later in the week, assuming the shot is dead centre what's the best way now to get the point of impact dead centre on the card between the numbers 1 & 2 when the point of aim is the cross-hair centre of the target / plate?
Raise the comb. Leave the rib alone. Ignore bead stack. Go so far as to remove mid bead.
 

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Your eye is the rear sight and the front bead is the front sight, so to raise the POI, you raise the rear sight (eye). To do this, raise the comb. In addition, you can lower the front bead in relation to your eye (rear of the rib up and front of the rib down).
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Gentlemen, my thanks I'll raise the comb by about an eighth and shove it across to the right by the same amount and see what happens; completely understand that my eye is the rear sight and needs moving it's just that given it can be done in a few ways I thought I should check on best practice before I manage to screw myself up completely. Across here the shooting faction are, generally speaking, men of about 50 and up; the attitude tends to be " I've been doing it this way since Adam was a lad and see no reason to change now" so we tend to get stuck in our ways somewhat. I'll probably be boring you again soon so, as it's a good five hours plus behind for you, I'll wish you all a good afternoon doing whatever's floating your boat this fine Saturday afternoon.
 
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