[W.P.T.]

"We need to stop all bullets from going over the berms. People arrive at the 100 yard range and shoot rifles that have not been sighted in. Others sit at the firing line and shoot stuff in the wood blinders in front of them. The blinders were setup to keep the shooter from being able to see over the berm but they shoot at them and the bullet goes over the berm" ...

Sounds to me like a problem with the shooters not the berms ... How high are the berms ..? The shooters know the wood blinders are not supposed to be shot at, right ..? Communication, its a wonderfull thing ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

[Joe Potosky]

An interesting read...

Baffles, Berms and Backstops

http://www.nssf.org/ranges/rangeresources/library/detail.cfm?filename=facility_mngmnt/design/baffles_berms.htm

 

[slowdp]

WPT - berms are about 15 feet high. Yes the shooters know they are not to shoot at the blinders but they do it anyway. If we catch one he will be asked to turn in his membership card. A lot of the members are not easy to deal with.

There is communications with rule reading when someone joins but the jerks do stuff like this anyway. Every membership year the member signs that he read the rules and will obey the rules. Forget it with some of the a$$e$.

We sometimes see tracers go out and see the damage to the gong with armor piercing bullets.

We are in a congested area that is getting more congested yearly. More protection is needed.

 

[mixer]

It only takes a few morons who think the rules don't apply to them to ruin it for everyone.


Eric

 

[W.P.T.]

slowdp,

It was not a personal attack against you, but the members you are dealing with are something else ... Sounds like some of them are part of the group that can and will ruin it for everyone else ... Good Luck ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

[Haskins Bill]

NRA range source book has details of building an idiot proof range. it involves concrete walls with a frame work of treated wood 2x12's spaced in pairs that form a sort of pergola type structure across the shooting lanes. the spacing of these pairs increases the farther down range towards the actual backstop. The idea is that you cannot get enough elevation from the shooting station to send a bullet over the backstop or to have a ricochet make it over. The 2x12's are hung on the side structure with metal straps/angle iron so they can be switched out easly. The fellow I spoke with in New Jersey about this said they diliberately shot at the 2x12 pairs with various high powered rifles and the bullets would go through the first and because of the spacing and it being wood the slug would just impact sideways into the second one. Expensive? hell yes and an alternative is have a range officer on duty carry a 30 cal steel GI cleaning rod to whack the offenders in the ear if they mess up!!!! Maybe have the range officer wear a Smokey The Bear Hat for good visual effect too!!!I belive a range in New Jersey has this type of setup. Falls River ? gun club or rifle and pistol club. It has been years since I investigated this type of range. Good luck with the mimrods taht are jeopordizing yoiur club. Bill. I will look on another computer later on for more and info and maybe a link.

 

[VAMiket]

I deal with this on a daily basis and can provide some insight for you. PM if interested.

 

[N. J. BOB]

It is a real problem at every range. I don't know how to solve it either except by spending a lot of money on idiot proof ranges? Or as has been said hire a full time range officer who will do his job. Common sense is just not common..

 

[AveragEd]

There a saying that might apply here - "you can't fix stupid." I'd wager that you could build berms and backstops as high as you want and some clowns will see if they can defeat them. About your only sure-fire solution is range officers. Try to get some retirees to baby-sit the ranges on a scheduled basis in exchange for a free membership. Give them the authority to expell any members that don't shoot safely and tell them not to be afraid to dial 9-1-1 if the member refuses to cooperate with the range officer. A club to which I belong does that very thing during the high-usage months preceding hunting seasons and it is very effective. If the current explosion of new members perists, we may extend that practice to the rest of the year.

Ed

 

[slowdp]

Thanks Sky Dog. I am sending you a pm.

AverageEd - we have paid range officers. The dummy shooter will wait for him to get to the other end of the firing line and put some holes in the overhead. These guys are really bad. It is hard to catch them. We are thinking about covering the overheads with painted plywood for now and have the range officer walk the range each time it is cold. New holes will get the member thrown out of the club. The range officer will have to paint the plywood so the next guy knows the holes were not made by the following shooter.

Full protection is a must. Many of the members just don't give a crap.

The other thing is to go from $150 per year to $1500 per year. We would only need 70 members then. That would reduce the problem.

We do not allow non-members unless they are with a member. Non-members are worse than members so we tell the member he is responsible for the non-member. Still does not work.

 

[slowdp]

Sky Dog - your pm is blocking me.

 

[Haskins Bill]

Whoops it is Falls Township Rifle and Pistol Association, my bad. They are in Fairless Hills ,Pa. On their website under programs and then CMP matches there is a photo of their coverd rifle range. In it they used old utility poles for the overhead structure. I remember speaking on the phone to one of their officers several years ago and he mentioned that the NRA discourages the use of round poles and strongly recomends using 2x12's now. He even sent me a file showing drawings of the type NRA recomends. I was still on dialup way back then and had an engineer at work open the file and print the drawings out on a huge plotter. Nice fellow to deal with back then. http://www.ftrpa.org/ Bill

 

[John 53]

Why not spend ~$400 on surveilance cameras? Even if the (^$%) shoot the camera, you will have the last image the camera took (If you link it to a computer in the club house), and it should be your perpetrator. Then kick out the entire group he was with, IF they do not report him.

You can also add DUMMY camera covers so the genius does not know which are love and which are fakes.

 

[slowdp]

Cameras would work for some stuff and might get most people to watch what they were doing. You would still have to figure out who the person was - although we do have everyone sign in when they come in the gate.

We still need to make sure the bullets cannot leave the range. Unsafe practice will be about the only way people can get a request going to close the range.

Thank everyone for the info so far.

NRA has responded but I have not had a chance to follow up on the info.

 

[Shooting Coach]

Sounds like 2 RSO's may be needed. We have to run three on busy days, one on Rifle, one on Pistol, and a Floater when one gets tied up with shooters.

They must have authority to revoke the membership and eject those who damage property and put the club at risk.

As you know, the quickest way to get a club closed it to allow bullets to leave the range area.

After a few miscreants are ejected, others will get the message and this will stop.

 

[VAMiket]

Try it now.