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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
HELP!

Just bought a Beretta A400 xcel multitarget.
The usual fitting is to have a PERFECT “8” with the front sight and the mid bead.

In order to attain this:
1. I removed all the washers at the comb
2. I adjusted the front sight by lowering the rib as low as I could.

Result: I still have a large swat of space between the mid bead and the front sight.

Used the patterning board and it was shooting high.

Do I need to have the perfect 8? What to do to achieve that?

Your help is highly appreciated. Thanks a lot for your precious time!

CT
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The figure 8 is overrated and no you don't need it but if you raise the front of the rib (only) this will lower your point of impact and get you closer to the fig 8 you desire.
Thanks for the quick advice WadHopper sir! Will heed it and test it on the patterning board.
 

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This is a common problem with guns having both an adjustable rib and comb. AS you know, raising the front of the rib had the same effect s lowering the comb.

I agree that a figure-8 bead alignment is grossly overrated. It makes the gun's POI (point of impact) a little higher than its POA (point of aim). And it works for some, while others like their guns to shoot higher or even lower; it's a very personal thing and relates to reaction time, swing speed and the distance to the targets.

Try this: Set your rib so it is parallel with the bore. Adjust your comb so you see a figure-8 bead alignment with only snug cheek pressure on the comb.

Then try shooting targets and firing when the bead or rib us just touching the bottoms of targets. This is easiest to test this procedure with a trap set to throw only straightaways and moving from station to station.

Rollin
 

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Thanks for the quick advice WadHopper sir! Will heed it and test it on the patterning board.
You're more than welcome, and also welcome to the forum.

Ton's of great people and resources on this forum.

Best of luck to you as you continue setting up your gun. Hopefully, once you know your gun's shooting straight, you'll have access to a trap and determine your most effective POI on actual targets, thrown as straights from post three. I've read that this is the best way to finish setting up your gun and although I've never done it, I can totally understand it's purpose.

We all see the target and react to it differently so don't let someone try to tell you how you should be doing it. Granted, there's some things that'll be universal but when it comes down to just you and the target, it's on us to figure out what we need to be successful and that -I believe- is what keeps us coming back for more.
 

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HELP!

Just bought a Beretta A400 xcel multitarget.
The usual fitting is to have a PERFECT “8” with the front sight and the mid bead.

In order to attain this:
1. I removed all the washers at the comb
2. I adjusted the front sight by lowering the rib as low as I could.

Result: I still have a large swat of space between the mid bead and the front sight.

Used the patterning board and it was shooting high.

Do I need to have the perfect 8? What to do to achieve that?

Your help is highly appreciated. Thanks a lot for your precious time!

CT
Why would you expect anything else? Of course lowering the front sight a bunch made the gun shoot high.

It almost seems as though you believe some mythical "figure 8" Would make the gun shoot "right" but it doesn't. But understanding rib geometry will surely help you in the future! You've just taught yourself that with an adjustable rib and comb, you can make any number of adjustment combinations such that you achieve the magical Figure 8, and yet it means squat!

BTW, does your gun have an adjustable butt pad on it? If it doesn't , get one! It will help you a bunch in getting proper set up!
 

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BTW Col, did your gun come with the shim kit? I ask because my Multi-Target did not come with the shim kit, but I was able to get some shims who had some from other beretta guns he had.

In the end, I never liked the Multi-Target, and sold it to a friend. Even after having it fit by a professional, just didn't like the way it felt while shooting it.
 

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But understanding rib geometry will surely help you in the future!
Yeah . . . what John Henry said.

Col. Tulizan: you're mixing up positioning a gun's adjustable devices for stock fit purposes versus positioning them for Point of Impact tweaking. They are related concepts, but not the same things.


I agree that a figure-8 bead alignment is grossly overrated. It makes the gun's POI (point of impact) a little higher than its POA (point of aim).
Rollin: while we're on the subject of rib geometry . . . as I've mentioned to you many times before when you made similar statements, I disagree with it. Yes, it's true for some rib geometries, but not for others. The Beretta A400 Multitarget under discussion is a perfect example. According to Beretta's data, this gun's adjustable rib allows POI to be set from "50/50 to 100/0". Therefore, it is possible with this gun to set the rib to such a steep downward slope that even an eye height that gives a "no-gap-between-the-beads" Figure-8 bead alignment will still yield a really high POI (likely the 100/0 as Beretta states). I don't think many of us consider 100/0 to be just "a little higher than POA". Apparently, this is the situation Col. Tulizan got himself into.
 

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It's true for some rib geometries, but not for others. The Beretta A400 Multitarget under discussion is a perfect example. According to Beretta's data, this gun's adjustable rib allows POI to be set from "50/50 to 100/0". Therefore, it is possible with this gun to set the rib to such a steep downward slope that even an eye height that gives a "no-gap-between-the-beads" Figure-8 bead alignment will still yield a really high POI (likely the 100/0 as Beretta states). I don't think many of us consider 100/0 to be just "a little higher than POA". Apparently, this is the situation Col. Tulizan got himself into.
While it may be my ignorance that has me in disbelief, I'd have to see it to believe it. I don't see how this gun (I have demoed it) could ever shoot high enough to place it's entire pattern above the point of aim, with such little taper to the rib, all while maintaining a figure 8.

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While it may be my ignorance that has me in disbelief, I'd have to see it to believe it. I don't see how this gun (I have demoed it) could ever shoot high enough to place it's entire pattern above the point of aim, with such little taper to the rib, all while maintaining a figure 8.

View attachment 1628445
It sure can easily be set up to shoot 100%.
 

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And maintain a figure 8? I’m sure with the comb jacked up, yea.
WadHopper:

1. Don't be misled by the photo of the gun you posted. I'm pretty sure that photo does not show this gun with the front of the rib at its lowest adjustment . . . it can go lower = it's settable to more rib downslope than what you see in that photo.

2. Shifting POI 15-inches at 40 yards (i.e., "100/0") requires surprising little rib slope to accomplish. Working out the geometry, the rib only needs to angle down a little less that 0.6 degrees. For a 30-inch barrel, that's equivalent to the front of the rib being only about 0.3-inches lower than the rear of the rib. I'm pretty sure that's about the adjustment range of the A400's rib.

3. In any case, that was not the overall point to my earlier post. I was merely pointing out that any shotgun with a significant downward slope to its rib can yield a rather high POI, even when used with a Figure-8 bead alignment. This is why I disagree with what Rollin seems to be stating (that Figure-8 with any gun always yields a POI only a little higher than POA). I simply used the OP's gun as an example, and I took Beretta's word that this A400 model could achieve a 100/0 POI with a Figure-8. It probably can (or at least pretty close). Even if this A400 model "only" achieves 80/20 or 90/10, it still serves as a good example of the point I'm trying to make.
 

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While it may be my ignorance that has me in disbelief, I'd have to see it to believe it. I don't see how this gun (I have demoed it) could ever shoot high enough to place it's entire pattern above the point of aim, with such little taper to the rib, all while maintaining a figure 8.

View attachment 1628445
There is more adjustment to that rib then you would think. I shot a 90/10 with it and a figure 8. When my wife confiscated the gun we adjusted it to 60/40. The total gap is from all the down to fully raised is .248.
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