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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I took private instruction as was I very frustrated with my inconsistent scores. He helped me patterned my gun and adjusted my comb accordingly. It made a huge improvement. If nothing else that alone was worth the price of the lesson.

once we got on the trap field he teaches separate gun and visual holds. I saw a YouTube video with Gil Ash teaching that same thing. They teach never look down the barrel. He stressed holding a low gun and never allowing the bird to cross below the barrel as it causes visual confusion.

I’m struggling with this Eye and barrel separation. He told me to stick with it. I can ignore the beads but I still like my visual hold to line up over the barrel.

Is this a common practice and should I stick with it. Is it worth the work?
 

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You wrote: "He stressed holding a low gun and never allowing the bird to cross below the barrel as it causes visual confusion. " For more than 50 years I could take advantage of 2 eyed Binocular Vision and have my gun hold over the trap house. Now at age 80 I wear the tape patch on my left eye lens and I have changed my gun holds so that the target is Not obscured from vision from my right on shoulder eye.
 

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I took private instruction as was I very frustrated with my inconsistent scores. He helped me patterned my gun and adjusted my comb accordingly. It made a huge improvement. If nothing else that alone was worth the price of the lesson.

once we got on the trap field he teaches separate gun and visual holds. I saw a YouTube video with Gil Ash teaching that same thing. They teach never look down the barrel. He stressed holding a low gun and never allowing the bird to cross below the barrel as it causes visual confusion.

I’m struggling with this Eye and barrel separation. He told me to stick with it. I can ignore the beads but I still like my visual hold to line up over the barrel.

Is this a common practice and should I stick with it. Is it worth the work?
I hold my gun a foot or two above the trap house at 16 yards.
I am looking above the gun to see the target.

I see the rib and beads in my periphery. My eyes do not come back to the beads or rib.

I am looking up and out into the area where I expect to see a whole target.
Not a flash or a streak. Although I may see these in my Periphery.

When I see a whole target , I make a smooth move to the target.

I am aware of the Rib and Beads but my focus is on the target.

I don't worry about the Bird crossing the barrel.

I hold the gun at a height that allows me to make a smooth move to the target without chasing it.

Its All Good
West
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I hold my gun a foot or two above the trap house at 16 yards.
I am looking above the gun to see the target.

I see the rib and beads in my periphery. My eyes do not come back to the beads or rib.

I am looking up and out into the area where I expect to see a whole target.
Not a flash or a streak. Although I may see these in my Periphery.

When I see a whole target , I make a smooth move to the target.

I am aware of the Rib and Beads but my focus is on the target.

I don't worry about the Bird crossing the barrel.

I hold the gun at a height that allows me to make a smooth move to the target without chasing it.

Its All Good
West
What I want to do....

I don’t focus on the barrel but beyond it. However I was keeping my visual hold lined up with the rib of barrel. I’m not looking at the barrel but they are always connected


he is teaching separate the 2 completely. Like on post 5 he wants my barrel just outside of right corner of house. He wants my eyes on the center of the house looking for the bird. He said if my gun is shooting where I’m looking my hands will take care of the rest.
 

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I am a one eyed shooter and point my barrel below the top of the trap house and I look about 3 ft to 4 ft above the trap house for the target.

Now I need to see the target for a split second before I move my gun to it.

When I shoot Sporting Clays and Skeet I hardly ever hold my gun were I am looking for the target. On straight away targets I point my gun well below where the target will be.
 

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he is teaching separate the 2 completely. Like on post 5 he wants my barrel just outside of right corner of house. He wants my eyes on the center of the house looking for the bird. He said if my gun is shooting where I’m looking my hands will take care of the rest.
Kay Ohye says the same thing (but with a little different "look point").
 

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Holding the gun lower while focusing the eye at a higher point out far allows the brain to start tracking the bird's trajectory while it is still a streak, the subconscious starts moving the gun toward it, by the time it appears as a solid bird, you should be on or close-you can 'polish the torpedo' from there. (Make fine adjustments to your lead)
 

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Like on post 5 he wants my barrel just outside of right corner of house. He wants my eyes on the center of the house looking for the bird. He said if my gun is shooting where I’m looking my hands will take care of the rest.
Wouldn't looking right at the house make the bird look more streaky? I always look out to where I expect the bird to come clearly into my focus instead of trying to chase it with my eyes.
 

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What I want to do....

I don’t focus on the barrel but beyond it. However I was keeping my visual hold lined up with the rib of barrel. I’m not looking at the barrel but they are always connected


he is teaching separate the 2 completely. Like on post 5 he wants my barrel just outside of right corner of house. He wants my eyes on the center of the house looking for the bird. He said if my gun is shooting where I’m looking my hands will take care of the rest.
Yes the hold point is not the same as your soft focus point. The hold point is for the best point to swing to the bird your focus point is the best point to see the bird. I keep my head on the gun Straight with the rib and move just my eyes to the soft focus point.
 

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Lots of different guns...
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I let target presentation determine my look and hold points because I feel if you try using the same holds at different places it will bite you sooner rather than later.
-Look Points: I look directly above the barrel, maybe 2' or so, the exception being post three and five.
-Hold Points: Depends on targets but mostly parallel (see avatar). I hold right of center but look center and about a foot off the house on five while looking for the straight away for visual hold, the dimensions of the trap might affect my hold points slightly.

All the above applies to singles only.
 

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I’m struggling with this Eye and barrel separation. He told me to stick with it. I can ignore the beads but I still like my visual hold to line up over the barrel.

Is this a common practice and should I stick with it. Is it worth the work?
It works for some and not for others. I also want my look point to be straight down the rib. I’ve tried holding to one side and looking to the middle, I’ve tried holding high and looking under the barrel. I can’t make it work for me. Also, over time, I would unconsciously let my look point climb higher above the barrel until I would become “disconnected” from the barrel and my scores would suffer. I don’t let that happen anymore. I guess I will always just be a barrel hugger.

At any rate, there are plenty of good techniques out there and you just have to find what works best for you.
Denny K.
 

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I took private instruction as was I very frustrated with my inconsistent scores. He helped me patterned my gun and adjusted my comb accordingly. It made a huge improvement. If nothing else that alone was worth the price of the lesson.

once we got on the trap field he teaches separate gun and visual holds. I saw a YouTube video with Gil Ash teaching that same thing. They teach never look down the barrel. He stressed holding a low gun and never allowing the bird to cross below the barrel as it causes visual confusion.

I’m struggling with this Eye and barrel separation. He told me to stick with it. I can ignore the beads but I still like my visual hold to line up over the barrel.

Is this a common practice and should I stick with it. Is it worth the work?
I think you are on the right track, but I also think the explanation below by WEST explains the barrel connection in a way that is easy to understand.
 

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Part of the solution to my cross-firing problem was to start looking down the side of the barrel rather than over it. For me, a right-hander, that means my master eye is looking down the left side of the barrel. Thus, when I get a left angle target my off eye ( left ) is less likely to lock onto the target and cause a cross-fire.
 

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I took private instruction as was I very frustrated with my inconsistent scores. He helped me patterned my gun and adjusted my comb accordingly. It made a huge improvement. If nothing else that alone was worth the price of the lesson.

once we got on the trap field he teaches separate gun and visual holds. I saw a YouTube video with Gil Ash teaching that same thing. They teach never look down the barrel. He stressed holding a low gun and never allowing the bird to cross below the barrel as it causes visual confusion.

I’m struggling with this Eye and barrel separation. He told me to stick with it. I can ignore the beads but I still like my visual hold to line up over the barrel.

Is this a common practice and should I stick with it. Is it worth the work?
It's worth the work. The eyes are never located with the gun. Hold points and look points are 2 different spots.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
 

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To learn this technique start by mounting the gun as you normally would and look up down and side to side.
Notice that when you check the bead that everything still lines up.
Now you know that you can expand your field of vision without losing the end of the gun your ready to try it for real.
What's the worst thing that can happen? You may miss but what if you can master it and you end up mastering a new skill and it helps to reach your goals!!!!
I believe that it's something that's important for everyone or I wouldn't ask you to try.
Henry
 
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