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Discussion Starter #1
I bought a new Beretta 687 trap combo last week. The fine folks at Joel Etchen gave me a quick fitting just to get me close. I was going to hit the patterning board tomorrow. I had the chance to shoot about 200 rounds with it this past weekend. I could not resist trying it.

I'm hitting targets OK with it. It is a new gun so I know it will take some getting used to. I've never had an unsingle before so that's a whole new deal also.

Here's my question. My cheek bone hurts. Pretty bad. I shot with it on Sunday AM and then again on Monday AM. Here is it Tuesday PM and my cheek still hurts. I shot about 15,000 rounds ATA and skeet this target year and never had this issue. Sure, my shoulder has hurt but never my cheek. Right now I feel zero pain on my shoulder but man...my cheek is killing me.

I've provided two pictures. One is of me and the Beretta. This is the gun with the adjustable comb. The other is of my gun which I've shot for years, my 3200. I know this may or not provide any clue as to why I am hurting, but any advice is greatly appreciated.

I know...I know...get professionally fit. That's really not an option here in NJ as those guys are few and far between. Even so, I know there are a ton of very knowledgeable people on here who might see something.

Fit 3.jpg Fit 2.jpg Fit.jpg
 

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How "sharp" does the top of the comb feel compared with/to your 3200 comb? My P gun comb is wide and rolled over some to prevent what almost feels like a knife edge on top of the comb to me. If it feels sharp on the face try raising it slightly and moving it to the right a little. Then don't force your cheek hard on the comb to get a particular sight picture, just natural pressure and then see how they break. You have a lot of cheek bulge which could mean you are forcing a picture. Too much cheek gets it bit.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
The really weird part is that it feels really good when holding it like this. The comb is actually a little bit "fatter" and rounder than the 3200 or the Ljutic that I traded in. I had it slightly to the right this past weekend but I moved it back to the neutral position tonight.

I can't make the Westy Hogans this weekend.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
The LOP on this gun is about 14.25 in this picture, exactly the same on the 3200....maybe 1/8th difference.
 

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Why all that force to get your head down where you want it? Your head should drift down to contact the stock in an almost effortless and companionable tryst. Are you trying to get some kind of bead relationship that the stock is far, far too high to let you achieve without deforming your cheek like crazy?

Or doesn't it have enough relief to the right? Or is the whole stock way too fat? That's common enough with Berettas.

Lastly, what's with the stock doing out on your bicep or even upper arm? Is it way too long?

What kind of stock fitters do they have over there at (correction) JE?

Neil
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I was always told you gotta attach your head to that stock to be consistent. Its the way I've always shot...and I'm a high B singles shooter. Not setting the world on fire but not terrible either. This picture is with the over under barrel and the beads are stacked at this point. I have plenty of movement on the comb to move it all over the place. It is dead centered in this shot and up maybe 3/8" or so.

As far as where it lands on my shoulder...I can't tell you. It just fits me right there. It isn't on my bicep. It is right is a divot area that I've always shot from.

Coles?
 

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Did your other gun have a parallel comb? If you still have the 3200,check the pitch compared to the new gun.You could even put butt against a wall horizontal and see how they compare.If you don't have former gun,I would experiment with washers at top or bottom before you start spending money on a cure.I have found over years that a little change can make a big difference.
Good luck.
joe
 

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Sorry, I thought it was Coles. I see that it's JE. My mistake.

As far as the rest, it looks way out to the right to me. Maybe if you dropped the comb (quite a) bit so you could see the bead relationship you are after you would get hit less. The pattern board is probably where you should try to work things out. Did you use it to get a baseline from your 3200? As I look at photos 1 and 2 and compare them photo 3, your old gun, it looks to me like your cheek is pushed up a lot more with the new one and likely it doesn't allow the movement to right that the 3200 did.

This is something you really want to fix as soon as possible, Stocker. A cheek that still hurts two days later is a warning - at worst a threat - of a release trigger in the future and who wants to need one of them?


Neil
 

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I can't imagine having to bear down on any stock like that. It's all in preference to each of us how we do it.I Also see in your photos that the stock mount on your shoulder seems low.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I lowered the comb a bit. I was able to get the same bead sight by not pushing down as hard and holding the gun a bit higher.

I like the idea of checking the pitch and also patterning this gun against the 3200.

I will hit the board tomorrow and see what happens. Thanks for your responses.

Tony
 

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First, your mount on the 3200 is 1 to 1.5 inches forward of where it is on the Beretta (can't even see your nose), the butt is lower on your shoulder and your neck is bent lower. The Beretta mount appears more upright, butt a bit higher and "looks" better, as far as the mount goes.
I would start with the pitch angle, just to see if there is much difference. The 3200's were pretty straight (not enough pitch for me) but you do appear to have solid contact on your shoulder with both guns. Are you on top of the comb with your cheek? (enough offset)
Make sure the adjustable comb is not angled upward in the front or toward you (cast on). Cheek pain is nothing to mess with. You will develop a negative reaction to it that will take a long time to correct.

Scott Hanes
 

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Discussion Starter #15
The 3200 is lower, no doubt. I was pulling my head off during doubles for the second shot. I attributed that to me having to put my head down so far on the gun.

I am on top of the comb on both guns, or at least I think I am. I will check the angle of the comb but I am 99% sure it is level. I do need to check the pitch, which is a term I just learned about on here a few days ago.
 

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Why all that force to get your head down where you want it? Your head should drift down to contact the stock in an almost effortless and companionable tryst. Are you trying to get some kind of bead relationship that the stock is far, far too high to let you achieve without deforming your cheek like crazy?

Or doesn't it have enough relief to the right? Or is the whole stock way too fat? That's common enough with Berettas.

Lastly, what's with the stock doing out on your bicep or even upper arm? Is it way too long?

What kind of stock fitters do they have over there at (correction) JE?

Neil
Still trying to figure out what a "companionable tryst" is..sounds like it might be kinda naughty.
 

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Lay your new gun on it's side, on a table or bench, then carefully lay your 3200 on top, trying to find a common part (triggers, butt end, comb). See if the pitch on the new gun is the same as the old one. Look to see if the nose of the comb, is about as long as the other in comparison to the grip.
Place the 3200 on some kind of a rest, horizontally, with the comb and rib facing up. Get a yardstick, place it on top of the rib and let the rest of the yardstick go over your comb. With a ruler, measure your drop at the nose of the comb and at the back (write those measurements on a piece of paper in order to compare them later to your new gun). Place the yardstick on it's side, over the rib's centerline, then look back over the comb, either trying to take measurement of the offset, or cast off. Once you have done these things, copare them to your new gun in order to see what's different and where it is you need to try and adjust your new stock, or comb.
 

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I'll add my 2 cents:

I see several things wrong and it appears to me you have a bad gun fit and bad mount (probably on both guns). Besides the fit issues, I see you mounting the Beretta higher up on the shoulder compared to the 3200. On the 3200 you are crawling the stock which you can tell from the amount of your nose visible in each picture and the angle of your eyes looking down the rib. You don't want to do this. You want to be able to look straight out, not toward the brim of a hat if you were wearing one.

I also agree with others it looks like you don't have the butt in the pocket of your shoulder. It looks to close to your arm. Maybe it's deceiving in the picture since it's a side shot. You will never get a good gun fit if you don't have the butt in the proper pocket of your shoulder. Try this different approach to the mount: Bend your right arm up so your elbow is up and your bicep is parallel to the ground (typical trap mount). Point the shotgun to the sky about 330 degrees (0/360 is straight up). Now with your bicep parallel to the ground and the shotgun pointed at 330 degrees skyward mount it and then bring the muzzle down to normal aim position. This technique should open up the shoulder pocket to help you get a better mount. I'm not advocating to mount the gun this way shooting (some do) but to try this test to see if you get a better "pocket fit". With your head tightly resting (not mashed) against the comb you should be able to look right down the center of the rib. If not, you may need to adjust cast or height. Once mounted with an unloaded gun of course have someone look straight down the rib from the muzzle side. It should be aligned with the pupil of your eye. This is left/right/low test and not to see if you eye is to high. You may want more rib showing (as long as it's centered) depending on your POA/POI.

It appears to me you are applying far to much head pressure on the comb. You want to tightly "rest" your head on the stock but nothing more. This can be deceiving in a picture but it appears that way.

To get a good idea of the LOP lay your arm out flat on a desk or arm of a chair with a 90 degree bend and with a yard stick or similar measure the distance of your arm (where bicep starts) to the first knuckle in your trigger finger (or second knuckle down from the fingertip). This should put you within an 1/8 inch of your desired LOP and is a great starting point. I bring this up because your nose looks awful close to your trigger hand. This in itself isn't bad but can be a sign of wrong LOP or crawling the stock. I myself shoot with about 1 finger width between my nose and trigger thumb (big snozz here) but i don't craw the stock. :)

The sore face is probably most indicative to pitch angle but until you get the rest of the gun fit it's 2nd in importance. However you might have to adjust back and forth the pitch and comb height to get it right for you.. You have to fit the gun overall before adjusting pitch. A quick visual from a bystander when you shoot the gun can help determine this. When you shoot the gun it should go straight back into your shoulder. You should NOT see the muzzle rising or jump. If you see this happening from a side view you definitely need to check/adjust your pitch.

Now with all this said there is "proper text book" fit and there is the fit you've grown accustomed to that works for you and there is the fit that is probably statistically best for you but might take some time to get adjusted to. If you ever watch videos of Olympic shooters you will see all kinds of things that aren't "text book" but work for that shooter. There is no specific right or wrong but only what will work best for you long term (and this can change).

Try the shoulder pocket exercise I mentioned previously. Then also take a yard stick and lay it across your rib on your 3200 and measure the distance of the comb where your face mounts it (free air space between yard stick and comb). Do the same with your new Beretta. Are they the same or do you have a different comb height. It might be subtle but could change the way your face presses against the comb. You may be able to adjust the gun to you OR you may need to adjust to the gun in a more proper fit. Of course pitch can come into play here so you may need to go back and forth a couple of times adjusting both comb and pitch.

Probably one of the best concise videos on gun fit is:

Same guy, but video is strictly about gun fit:

Taking the Mystery Out of Pitch (same guy):

Here is a video talking mostly about pitch and shows some extremes:

Try to do the things mentioned in the first video with an open mind, then do some adjustments and practice mounts and video yourself from both side and front angels. Review videos and look for consistent mounts and to make sure you are bringing the gun up to your face and then shoulder and not your face to the gun (or crawling the stock).

With proper knowledge and being honest with what you see in the videos you record of yourself, you can fit the gun yourself. While maybe not as good as the top fitters you can do a better job then many "fitters" and you can surely adjust the gun to become much more pleasant to shoot.
 

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Pitch, pitch, pitch.
Stand the guns next to each other (on the butt plates) to check how the new compares with the old. Take photos and let us see.

TD
 

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I bought a new Beretta 687 trap combo last week. The fine folks at Joel Etchen gave me a quick fitting just to get me close. I was going to hit the patterning board tomorrow. I had the chance to shoot about 200 rounds with it this past weekend. I could not resist trying it.

I'm hitting targets OK with it. It is a new gun so I know it will take some getting used to. I've never had an unsingle before so that's a whole new deal also.

Here's my question. My cheek bone hurts. Pretty bad. I shot with it on Sunday AM and then again on Monday AM. Here is it Tuesday PM and my cheek still hurts. I shot about 15,000 rounds ATA and skeet this target year and never had this issue. Sure, my shoulder has hurt but never my cheek. Right now I feel zero pain on my shoulder but man...my cheek is killing me.

I've provided two pictures. One is of me and the Beretta. This is the gun with the adjustable comb. The other is of my gun which I've shot for years, my 3200. I know this may or not provide any clue as to why I am hurting, but any advice is greatly appreciated.

I know...I know...get professionally fit. That's really not an option here in NJ as those guys are few and far between. Even so, I know there are a ton of very knowledgeable people on here who might see something.

View attachment 519649 View attachment 519657 View attachment 519665 [/QUOTE

Keeping in mind that you are probably not mounting at home like you actually would on the trapline, I offer the following.

It's most likely your stock. You went from a thin comb to a beefy one. It may be necessary to shave/sand down to a comfortable thickness. This I doubt you'll do.

So from the pics, your stock is way to short for you. This alone will also enhance recoil to the face.
 
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