Green Dot cold weather problems?
I'm running low on powder. A few years ago I had an issue with Green Dot while shooting in 20F temperatures. The pressures where very low. I stopped using the powder because I didn't know if it was a bad batch or if it was the cold temps. I still have a few pounds left but I am hesitant to use it and waste some primers! Is Green Dot that sensitive to temps?
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No.
I've burned 800 lbs of green Dot shooting 1 ounce loads year round in upstate NY. I wouldn't have done that if I had an issue with sub-20 degree temps.
Use the right recipe.
I've burned 800 lbs of green Dot shooting 1 ounce loads year round in upstate NY. I wouldn't have done that if I had an issue with sub-20 degree temps.
Use the right recipe.
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1,304 Posts
I've never had an issue with Green Dot. Hot or cold, Green Dot is my favorite! Some of the euro primers I have heard are an issue with any powder when its cold. I use Fiocchi primers, and that is one I have read can give issues in the cold. I haven't had any issues.
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The only time I ever experienced issues with Green Dot was when using a Chedittes primer. On that day with exact load using Win209, no problem.
I had trouble in cold weather with Green Dot also.
I was loading the old super lite load of (17.5 grains 1-1/8 shot) around 1125fps.
I called Alliant and was told that Green Dot really needed 19 grains to have a good burn- or to substitute a Federal 209A primer.
I did, it worked all the way down to 18 grains in cold weather, I had no more issues.
I was loading the old super lite load of (17.5 grains 1-1/8 shot) around 1125fps.
I called Alliant and was told that Green Dot really needed 19 grains to have a good burn- or to substitute a Federal 209A primer.
I did, it worked all the way down to 18 grains in cold weather, I had no more issues.
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It stands to reason that if having problems with GD in colder temperatures substitute and use Federal 209A primer. However only do this prescribed load data. Also be aware that just because is listed for a straight wall Hull using tapered hull type wads can also contribute to the cold weather problem.
Sometimes if you have nothing better to do cut a straight wall Hull near the height where the wad makes contact with the powder. Then take a tapered wall type of wad and insert it in the straight wall Hull. Notice the side wall clearances (the space between the wad and the inside of the Hull.
The wad will wallow inside the Hull like a BB in a boxcar. A better example that you might understand is like Joe Biden’s brain in a matchbox.
Lots of empty space!!!
Sometimes if you have nothing better to do cut a straight wall Hull near the height where the wad makes contact with the powder. Then take a tapered wall type of wad and insert it in the straight wall Hull. Notice the side wall clearances (the space between the wad and the inside of the Hull.
The wad will wallow inside the Hull like a BB in a boxcar. A better example that you might understand is like Joe Biden’s brain in a matchbox.
Lots of empty space!!!
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It certainly seems reasonable to think an undersized wad would not seal properly, and perhaps that's true with some wads or at low temperatures, but ...
I hung out on the 16ga society board for a decade. That's a place where the "by the book only!" crowd would have nightmares. The only thing we were religious about was laboratory pressure testing. The 16ga was (still is) the red-headed stepchild of the reloading industry and recipes and components were very limited in existence and hard to come by. With the aid of pressure testing, dozens of good load recipes were concocted from scratch using powders the manufacturers had not intended us to use.
We had many conversations and received guidance from a couple of ballisticians at Alliant.
At the turn of the century, only a handful of 1 &1/8 ounce wads were available to handloaders. Remington's fine 1 ounce wad generally was not but a few dedicated forum members convinced them to sell a couple special runs to the public. Many 16ga shooters were interested in sub-1 ounce loads and had to resort to all sorts of "fillers" to get them. Which brings me back to the original topic...undersized wads.
A fella figured out Federal made the largest diameter 20 wad for their straightwall hull and it was "only" 15-20 thou undersized in Remington's tapered 16ga hull. Thus was born an excellent 7/8 ounce 16ga recipe using a 20ga wad in a 16ga hull. Surprising to some skeptics was that the undersized wad seals just fine and gives very uniform pressures and velocities.
It was a fella from that forum who put up his own money to develop a new 16ga wad, the DR16, and partner with Downrange to get it manufactured. The group also played a roll in getting Claybuster to make a new 16ga wad with the shot-reducing bump in the cup.
Much was also learned about primer substitutions and actually "controlling" pattern distributions as well, topics you won't see addressed by the powder companies.
I hung out on the 16ga society board for a decade. That's a place where the "by the book only!" crowd would have nightmares. The only thing we were religious about was laboratory pressure testing. The 16ga was (still is) the red-headed stepchild of the reloading industry and recipes and components were very limited in existence and hard to come by. With the aid of pressure testing, dozens of good load recipes were concocted from scratch using powders the manufacturers had not intended us to use.
We had many conversations and received guidance from a couple of ballisticians at Alliant.
At the turn of the century, only a handful of 1 &1/8 ounce wads were available to handloaders. Remington's fine 1 ounce wad generally was not but a few dedicated forum members convinced them to sell a couple special runs to the public. Many 16ga shooters were interested in sub-1 ounce loads and had to resort to all sorts of "fillers" to get them. Which brings me back to the original topic...undersized wads.
A fella figured out Federal made the largest diameter 20 wad for their straightwall hull and it was "only" 15-20 thou undersized in Remington's tapered 16ga hull. Thus was born an excellent 7/8 ounce 16ga recipe using a 20ga wad in a 16ga hull. Surprising to some skeptics was that the undersized wad seals just fine and gives very uniform pressures and velocities.
It was a fella from that forum who put up his own money to develop a new 16ga wad, the DR16, and partner with Downrange to get it manufactured. The group also played a roll in getting Claybuster to make a new 16ga wad with the shot-reducing bump in the cup.
Much was also learned about primer substitutions and actually "controlling" pattern distributions as well, topics you won't see addressed by the powder companies.
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Miss you on there Mike, there is an active thread about primer substitution there now.
Tom Armburst has a good article on primer substitution and patterns.
Really wish you wouldn't have deleted all your posts when you left 16ga.com you were a wealth of knowledge. I always considered you posts the Gold Standard and we have similar backgrounds. Despite the fact that you prefer red WW 16 hulls instead of purple and RGL which you have a lifetime supply of loaded
Thank goodness there are some of your posts that are preserved when someone quoted you.Tom also addresses crimp depth and pressure. Pressure is the enemy of cold weather shooting. You need enough of it. And crimp depth matters. Most data is generated with .055 crimp depth.
When Kevin started Downrange I worked with him on cold weather testing, about the only advantage where it gets into the twenties below zero for several months of the year. At the time Kevin didn't have a commercial freezer and could only get down to 0° for cold soaking. I could set a box of shells outside at ~30° below zero, Fahrenheit, and test them.
Photobucket cropped the axis legends but you can get an idea...
That was with F616 primers a long time ago. Picked up 20K of them during the Spring reloading sale back when such a thing existed. Youngest son and I went through ~20K rounds a year back then. Thought I'd save a few dollars. And did with F616 and Promo powder. Worked great until it got cold. Then the wheels fell off the wagon.
Kevin had me cut a notch in my 70's RCBS calipers to measure crimp depth. Looks like we shot 17K of the F616 back then until it got cold.
Turned out crimp depth was only around .040. Increasing it to .060 helped, some. But still was a recipe for failure with the combination of Promo and F616 primers.
I recall the old timers saying that for winter shooting crimp them deep enough to eat chili out of. And use Federal primers. Hmmm... I think they were on to something.
Green dot is a great powder although I prefer IMR Green which is no longer made. I pick it up whenever I see it for sale. Works great even down to the twenties below zero. As long as you keep pressure up.
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That charge weight seems a bit hefty for a #31 (MEC?) bushing. I'm not doubtful, just curious. I used a #32 for years and years to drop !8.6 to 19.2 grains. When it started trending on the lower side I finally changed to a #33 to get the 19.0-19.5 I like. I'm working off old inventory and haven't bought Gr Dot for 6-8 years; perhaps it's denser lately. Simply points up the need to check-weigh when we change kegs.
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An old timer told me to keep my pressures above 8500 for old weather Green Dot use. Seems to work so far.
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