Good Memory = Good Scores?
I don't know how it is for others, but my memory doesn't serve me well. It seems like every time I shoot when my scores are disappointing, it comes back to me that I forgot to do something which caused me to miss! There seem to be so many things to remember and they just don't stay in my subconscious and one or the other of them is always responsible for a miss!
I've been told I think too much and therefore have too many things on my mind; but after the shoot is over it dawns on me, if I had done this one thing that I know very well how to do, my scores would have been higher. My memory would surely be measured much higher when I'm putting my gun away than during the event!
It's been said Trap shooting is simple, "See the target, Shoot the target" and that trapshooters make it very hard, I know I sure complicate mine......my mind just won't store that much info!!!!! Biff
I've been told I think too much and therefore have too many things on my mind; but after the shoot is over it dawns on me, if I had done this one thing that I know very well how to do, my scores would have been higher. My memory would surely be measured much higher when I'm putting my gun away than during the event!
It's been said Trap shooting is simple, "See the target, Shoot the target" and that trapshooters make it very hard, I know I sure complicate mine......my mind just won't store that much info!!!!! Biff
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"biff- In all sports, the competitor must practice several things so he can do them in competition without thinking."
Pat Ireland
The only thing left out of Pat's good advice may be our ability, or a lack of it, to act on what we SEE, how we SEE it and how our inner workings react to what our EYES SEE and tell us. Phil K. speaks of seeing a target, then speaks of seeing it with intensity? It's important to figure out exactly what he's saying here in my opinion. Your subconscious data has nothing to do with how well you use your vision skills. Once the basic fundamentals are ingrained, its all about the connection between our eyes and the moving target. Ted Williams used this same principal to hit a baseball pretty consistently too as well as other great hitters in the game. Try looking at targets intently, instead of over analyzing everything involved. See it for what it is, shoot it in how your eyes tell you its a good look. Good-Look = Good-Relationship, er, I think thats what Frank Little meant. Just a bad back opinion but I'm getting cactus needle injections frequently these days here in AZ and its making me a tad smarter too?
Hap
Pat Ireland
The only thing left out of Pat's good advice may be our ability, or a lack of it, to act on what we SEE, how we SEE it and how our inner workings react to what our EYES SEE and tell us. Phil K. speaks of seeing a target, then speaks of seeing it with intensity? It's important to figure out exactly what he's saying here in my opinion. Your subconscious data has nothing to do with how well you use your vision skills. Once the basic fundamentals are ingrained, its all about the connection between our eyes and the moving target. Ted Williams used this same principal to hit a baseball pretty consistently too as well as other great hitters in the game. Try looking at targets intently, instead of over analyzing everything involved. See it for what it is, shoot it in how your eyes tell you its a good look. Good-Look = Good-Relationship, er, I think thats what Frank Little meant. Just a bad back opinion but I'm getting cactus needle injections frequently these days here in AZ and its making me a tad smarter too?
Hap
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HMB, I know your a good shot but please explain something for me? How would that sub-conscious connection work if you were standing in total darkness with only the clay lit up? I personally don't think the sub-conscious mind has much to do with shooting at all and I think its used as a mysterious COS. Since your sub-conscious can't make a mistake, what causes so many missed targets? If you don't see the target, you danged sure ain't gonna hit many! Shooting in evening shadows cause lots of shooters to lose targets so it must have ((something)) to do with our ability to see, that and not some psychobabble of unknowns.
Hap
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Hey, those are some deep thoughts and yes Hap, everything I have been reading says shooting is 90% mental after learning the basics. Ok, my memory is bad or so I'm thinking. Because I have read, watched videos, watched great shooters, talked with good shooters, practiced my weaknesses, and ect. ad nauseum and should have locked all that imformation into my sub conscious where it should be.....to later with out my letting my conscious mind interfere with it regurgitate it and just crunch all the targets I shoot at!
Something is wrong, where in the heck is all that great info which should be in my subconscious? Somehow it is there.... is it just too lazy or is it just holding out on me to make me look bad infront of my buddies by allowing the low scores! It's as if we know what to do and don't think about it too much, so as to intefere with our great subconscious; then why is it I am always finding out after I shoot poorly to remember the very thing I did wrong on those targets I missed!
Pat and Hap are great shooters, I have shot with them, but they don't do it all the time or as consistently as they'd like and they like me could have a definition of why they didn't shoot a good score at a certain shoot. If we know how to do everything in order to break a high score then why can't we? For me it has to be a bad memory. Biff
Something is wrong, where in the heck is all that great info which should be in my subconscious? Somehow it is there.... is it just too lazy or is it just holding out on me to make me look bad infront of my buddies by allowing the low scores! It's as if we know what to do and don't think about it too much, so as to intefere with our great subconscious; then why is it I am always finding out after I shoot poorly to remember the very thing I did wrong on those targets I missed!
Pat and Hap are great shooters, I have shot with them, but they don't do it all the time or as consistently as they'd like and they like me could have a definition of why they didn't shoot a good score at a certain shoot. If we know how to do everything in order to break a high score then why can't we? For me it has to be a bad memory. Biff
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Lots of people, the longer ago it was that they did something, remember being better than they really were at whatever it was they are remembering.
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Biff that is what sticky notes are for. I have a pocket full of them when I go up to the line to shoot but I forget to look at them until I'm done. LOL I had to simplify my shooting mantra to four steps.
1. Breath deep and slow(good for the eyes and brain)
2. Relax
3. See the target before you move
4. Break the target.
But I have to repeat it all over and over again to keep out all the stray thoughts that like to try and sneak in. But there are times when no matter what I do the stray thoughts come rolling in and I might as well quit for the day. You have to keep your conscious mind busy with positive thoughts or it takes over control from your subconscious and the next thing you know your trying to remember what to do and then it's too late and the target is lost.
How many times have you put your gun up and realized your not ready but called for the target anyway? When I put my gun up I want the last conscious thought before I call for the target to be "See the target". Like Hap said if you don't see it you won't break it.
1. Breath deep and slow(good for the eyes and brain)
2. Relax
3. See the target before you move
4. Break the target.
But I have to repeat it all over and over again to keep out all the stray thoughts that like to try and sneak in. But there are times when no matter what I do the stray thoughts come rolling in and I might as well quit for the day. You have to keep your conscious mind busy with positive thoughts or it takes over control from your subconscious and the next thing you know your trying to remember what to do and then it's too late and the target is lost.
How many times have you put your gun up and realized your not ready but called for the target anyway? When I put my gun up I want the last conscious thought before I call for the target to be "See the target". Like Hap said if you don't see it you won't break it.
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HMB, you sound like Lanny Basham! Remember only all those great moves where I broke targets that I shouldn't have.....you are right! It's a little like what Dean DeBow wrote on Dennis Devault's website: it went something like this.....he broke 100 targets in the morning of a 200 but on the 2nd 100 he only scored like a 94. He couldn't figure out what happened......the worst 16's shooter said to him, "this morning you were ready to shoot, this afternoon you shot when it was your turn!"
I don't know why but it appears most of my misses are caused by the same error. When we go to the line,according to Lanny, we already know what to do and keep the conscious mind from interfering with the subconscious as it knows exactly what to do. My subconscious is full of great info on exactly what to do, but like Otnot I seem to have to wake it up and give it some prompts. They say you never forget how to ride a bicycle, the same is true about breaking targets but somehow something in all that info in the sub forgets to do its job and ends up costing me a target! Biff
I don't know why but it appears most of my misses are caused by the same error. When we go to the line,according to Lanny, we already know what to do and keep the conscious mind from interfering with the subconscious as it knows exactly what to do. My subconscious is full of great info on exactly what to do, but like Otnot I seem to have to wake it up and give it some prompts. They say you never forget how to ride a bicycle, the same is true about breaking targets but somehow something in all that info in the sub forgets to do its job and ends up costing me a target! Biff
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Biffer, maybe you orta have a chat with Big Leo? I've forgotten now who said or wrote this about Leo's data recall abilities. May have been Martin Wilbur (the pheazuntreaper)? Anyway, it was said that Leo could recall which number target he missed and why he missed it!! Now a question. Does he recall that miss from his sub-conscious data bank? Or, possibly from the last look he had at that particular target which was off the mark and out of the ordinary for his normal attack? As in a bad timing move or didn't see it with clarity possibly? Wrong bird/bead relationship maybe? A few more n I'm done for a spell. Have you observed other shooters shooting at clays with almost the same exact timing no matter the angle or difficulty? Most shooters I personally know who shoot by timing alone will suffer more during inclement weather than those that create some sort of a bird/bead/barrel relationship prior to releasing or pulling the trigger. I wonder how a sub-conscious shooter (timing shooter) would fare on unknown extreme angles mixed with varying speeds? I'd have to guess just a little better than the shooter outstanding in the dark I mentioned above.
Hap
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Probably easier to remember your misses when they are rare (Leo). When you miss as much as I do you , you would need to be a genius to remember them all.
Charlie
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HMB, I do also. He has a simplistic way of looking at shooting, I have met him, talked with him in person, read his book and listened to his CDs. They are good, but for improvement we must look at what the specific results of a shoot are inorder to pin point that one weakness, to me that's not dwelling on the negative. We just can't say our subconscious let us down, especially when you choose "Deliberate Practice" in order to strengthen what you need to be doing inorder to bring the skill level to what you expect. Then you can work on the specific thing for improvement when you know what it is and practice it enough to correct it. Or maybe it could be that I have not drilled it into my subconscious!
What is hard for me to comprehend is that I seem to have a series of errors in my shooting, where over and over different ones pop up as though I didn't know it in the first place. That is where I feel my memory has let me down! When you are able to do something very well once and know exactly how to do this thing, why is it so difficult for you to do it again? Biff
What is hard for me to comprehend is that I seem to have a series of errors in my shooting, where over and over different ones pop up as though I didn't know it in the first place. That is where I feel my memory has let me down! When you are able to do something very well once and know exactly how to do this thing, why is it so difficult for you to do it again? Biff
I never before connected the Memory Theory to good shooting, but in Leo's case, it is true. He has an almost computer like memory for things he wants to remember (like all men, he has a "selective" memory, hearing, etc) When his family owned/operated the farm machinery business, he was in charge of the parts department. He could pull up a parts number on thousands of different parts, all off the top of his head. He does include in his clinics the importance of being consistant, having a set pre-shot routine and shooting off a correct site picture(not timimg). Last year someone asked me if Leo shot at a particular point in his breathing cycle....that was a new question, but brought up an interesting thought. It was explained to me that military marksmen are taught to squeeze the trigger at the bottom of their breathing cycle (just before they begin to take in a new breath). I suppose there are lots of factors that we don't take into consideration that does play into success at the trap range.
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Karla, thanks for adding some good info. Shooting isn't a constant and fluctuates up and down even for the top shooters also. Leo is right at the pinnacle of the top shooters and gives clinics; I'm curious has he ever taken a clinic or thought about taking one at this stage of his career. I don't mean this as a derogatory comment as he is a terrific shooter and a super nice person; even Tiger Woods has a golf coach, so there is always room for improvement. Yes, I saw him in the 900 target shootoff at the Grand this year! And I know his records and how frequently he wins, maybe he feels he has to let the others win occasionaly so they don't quit and go home! Biff
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