Trapshooters Forum banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 38 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
7,659 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
On last evening's news, a segment showed an electric plug in car from China. It will be available real soon. Comparisons: GM's price 40k--- China's cost 22k, GM's range---40 miles---China's range 70 miles ---again too little too late.--


Lou
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,458 Posts
China does not have to pay union wages and benefits. GM needs to file bankruptcy and start over ( without the union)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,536 Posts
China also does not mind poisoning the atmosphere and water of its land in order to achieve economic gain.

I would not buy a chinese car if it could go all day and all night on a single charge.

HM
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,755 Posts
First of all - what makes you assume GM's electric car won't be made in China, too?


I mean, it seems unlikely, given the overall sense of patriotic and nationalist overtones attached to the whole "non-petroleum car" issue...but...the production location hasn't been specified yet, at least that I have seen (someone pls. point me to a link, if you have seen it).


Regardless of the Volt issue, I've always contended that our real threat of foreign invasion doesn't come from Chinese companies marketing their cars here. It's companies like GM making their cars in China, and selling them in America with a GM badge on the front of it.


'Mericans will be driving Mao-Mobiles soon enough...but I strongly suspect the nameplate on the front will be a "familiar" one steeped in American tradition. How many GM owners realize the engine of the Equinox they are driving RIGHT NOW was made in China? Have they looked at the door sticker, to see where their Chevy Aveo was made?


The US makers have been left with this as their only option for getting rid of negative Union influence. The Union doesn't want anybody in America making cars unless they're UAW. Soon they may get their wish.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,811 Posts
and where do you think the bailout money will go??? USA, china, mexico, canada, brazil. the stock market screwed us and we bailed them out. the us car companies have been screwing us for 100 years and we are going to vail them out. congress has been screwing us for many years and they get a pay raise while we lose out jobs. why would gm build a (volt) when they can just buy it from china and double or triple the price. oz
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,474 Posts
To bad the unions are destroying all of our manufacturing jobs. If I owned a company and had to deal with union workers I would move it overseas too. Wouldn't want to deal with the us versus them attitude. So glad I never had a union job.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,755 Posts
I can't verify the performance specs. of the GM Volt vs. any Chinese competition...but if China comes up with an electric car designed and priced for the masses (ie, not Buicks for their rich elites to drive)...I seriously doubt it will be anything the Average American would want to drive.


I think GM's challenge in the Volt is not getting something that goes more miles than the Chinese competitor...that's all battery technology, and will be up to people like me to worry about. GM's challenge will be putting that battery into a vehicle that fits American lifestyles and tastes, that Americans will want to buy.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
7,659 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Just a thought, I believe the whole concept of a plug in car is in correct. Low mileage or better stated,low range cars are designed for an urban enviroment. Very few people in cities have garages or access for places to plug the cars into. Surbanites & or communiters usually do more than 40 miles on a regular basis.

Lou
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,975 Posts
To be an American means that some of your patriotism must be included in every life decision and purchase no matter how trivial...do you really want to buy that Chinese POS on those differences tauted by a very UNimpartial media...go ahead you fools ..and why not move over there right into those cesspools of toxic filth slums with the poorest of industrial slaves so you can take delivery on the next one directly..any one who owns or would consider owning foreign at this crucial time in history should be considered a traitor and I hope when that cheap POS blows up..that you're in it! America ,..Love it or Leave It...I'll even hold the door for you ...in the mean time I'll step up and be vocal so GM and the rest will know exactly what to do to make our products the best in the world again...But then again unless you're totally ignorant you should know Ford is already there and the rest not far behind
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
686 Posts
Whether it's an elecric car, a hybrid or hydrogen based technology, the issue at hand is our dependency on oil. The Chinese, the Japanese and the German auto companies are doing something about it. GM, FORD & Chrysler are not. Why aren't they? Don't you think a country with the resources to build the YF-22 Stealth Fighter can build a stupid battery powered car, or a hydrogen based engine? Think about it... John
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
572 Posts
highflyer,do you really think all this is the Unions fault?????

Did you ever think,it might be the management????? Civilian or Government.

Car cost 30k=unions fault...Crooked politicians=unions fault...Banks fail=unions fault...Wife runs off,kid smokes pot,dog craps on the floor=yep I know,unions fault....

Oh well,Happy Holidays and,,,,,if Santa doesn't show up,,,,,blame a union....GOOD LUCK
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,755 Posts
Just as an aside, I also think the idea of electric cars is a bad one.


It still emits carbon into the atmosphere. So why bother?


Its intent, in my opinion, is to convert automotive power from a form that is harder for Government to control (liquid fuel burned in your vehicle), to a form that is easy for bureaucrats to control (fuel burned in a publicly-regulated power plant, where the plant operator must seek advance gov't. approval for any increases in output).


Electric cars would take us out from under OPEC control - and place us under Government control. Once your car gets its power from a power plant, the Government is free to control how much you can afford to drive by taxing the hell out of carbon (via Obama's "Cap and Trade" emissions system).


The assholes haven't been successful in convincing people to live closer to their jobs, via peaceful means. Commute distances are still quite long for many people. So if they can't change that through voluntary means...they will do it forcefully, by taxing the hell out of coal-powered electricity generation.


The local Speedway Gas station (and OPEC) must at least obey the laws of supply and demand. The Government is under no such contstraint. Given a choice, I'd much rather be under the boot heel of capitalist OPEC profiteers, than mushy-headed socialists in Washington, D.C.


I understand the motive that drives OPEC, and it's profits. The goals and aims of government are much harder to divine. I'd much rather fill up at the pump and line the Arabs' pockets, any day. They're capitalists. Some of them want to kill us...but it ain't much different to drive an electric car, and line the pockets of Gov't. bureaucrats who want to turn us all into Frenchies.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
88 Posts
I agree with the union busters. Unions are without doubt the cause of all of our economic woes. We should reduce wages and benefits to be competitive with the Japanese. Then we should reduce them further to become competitive with the Koreans. If we lower them a little more we could compete with the Chinese. Then of course we could finally begin to compete with the African countries. Who knows, in time we could achieve a standard of living equivalent to Kenya or Bangladesh. D**n those unions for standing in the way of all of this progress.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
777 Posts
Well put irfner, thank you. I am a retired tool and die maker from Chrysler Jeep in Toledo as many of you know. I was not a fanatical union man at all. I however was glad that well trained union electricians maintained the preeses I had to work around and inside of. You have not lived until you have to put some carboard into a die and lay on your back stoning out a pimple in a punch on one that weighed more than twenty five tons all the while with a huge flywheel running at top speed and just four little magnesium alloy 'jacks' to catch all of it if something went wrong! Or spotting in a die in a tryout press under much the same conditions. I think that some of the antiunion people here would like this country to go back to just day laborers standing on a corner waiting for the truck to come to take them to some sort of job. That is the sort of welder I want to put my life in his hands or the boilermaker or the electrician or the crane operator and on and on! Not to mention airplane mechanics that rebuild the engines on the next plane you fly on. The list goes on and on!
 

·
Molon Labe
Joined
·
11,984 Posts
Ya'll need to get off the union bashing, if it wasn't for them everyone's life would be harder.

Now back to the subject, the Volt will travel about 40 miles before it needs a recharge, so if the electricity that recharges the battery is free, you would save about a gallon of gas per charge. If you commute 20 miles one way, you would save one gallon of gas per day. At $4 per gallon that would be approx $1040 per year. I've seen in some magazines that they expect the battery to cost $10,000, and last about 5-6 yrs. So in 6 yrs you have saved $6,240, and get to buy a $10,000 battery.

It leaves you $3,760 in the hole. Great concept. Now figure in the price of charging the battery, using coal or oil to run the generators.

Merry Christmas
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
309 Posts
The Chinese probably built a car with the goal of making it as light as possible, cheap as possible, taking advantage of no govt regulations forcing them to use expensive testing and enviromental considerations. Add that to the fact that the Asians routined put a product on the market at a loss in order to get their line going and then gradualy increase the price to make it up. They think much much much father ahead in business than we do.

I'm sure GM had the EPA and every other regulatory agency looking over their shoulder forcing expensive procedures to "save the enviroment". Also they would be trying to hit a compromise between passenger comfort and performance. For some reason Americans will look over the lack of comfort and convienence from the foreign makers but expect American cars to do everything and still match the price.

I think they will be no more American car companies in about 10 or 15 years.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,536 Posts
I'm with Irfner.

Highflyer, go to Indonesia, you can get lots of non union jobs there. You will be helping the American free trade economy be competitive, too.

In your defense, I did read one post of yours I agreed with. It had nothing to do with unions.

HM
 
1 - 20 of 38 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top