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Discussion Starter #1
Reference Garden Canyon Screw Up.

We had canceled the 7-8 Trap Shoot using Trapshooters.Com as the cancelation medium.

About 5 shooters showed up. Among them was Randy Kala who brought a Radar speed gun with him.

We set the traps with the gun at 44 MPH. We had a slight head wind. They were set immediately after turning the machines on. The targets were falling about a foot short of the stake for the 44 MPH bird. We threw 3 consecutive 44 MPH birds.

We then shot about 50 targets (practice) with the 5 shooters. Randy said it looked like the birds were going too far. So we checked the speed. It was 46 MPH. 3 consecutive 46 MPH birds. You could see the difference!!.

This is just another observation about target speed.

Rod Ritter
 

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Rod, you can't set the targets to the stake in the wind. A legal target is 42 mph minimum and 43 mph maximum per the rulebook. Remember, speed kills, scores.

And yes, Pat traps will speed up from the initial morning setting. Harv

E. FLIGHTS AND ANGLES
Singles targets shall be thrown not less than 49 yards nor more than 51 yards. Distance measurements are on level ground in still air.

F. RULES FOR THE USE OF RADAR GUNS AND CHRONOGRAPHS TO SET TARGET SPEED
There are two types of radar guns, high-power and low-power. The practical difference between them is that high-power guns work reliably from the 16-yard line and low-power guns don’t.
High-power guns (Decatur, Stalker, most “police radar guns” and similar) are to be used at the 16-yard line. The trap oscillation is stopped, and the target measured is a straightaway. The gun is pointed horizontally. The correct speed for a singles or handicap target is a minimum of 42 MPH, maximum 43 MPH. The correct speed for the right target of a doubles pair must be a minimum of 39 MPH, maximum of 40 MPH.
Low-power guns (SportRadar, Bushnell, and similar) are to be used at the back of the traphouse and at the level of the top of the traphouse. (Holding the gun higher than that will lead to a target which is too fast.) The trap oscillation is stopped, and the target measured is a straightaway. The gun is pointed horizontally. The correct speed for a singles or handicap target must be a minimum of 42 MPH, maximum of 43 MPH. The correct speed for the right target of a doubles pair must be a minimum of 39 MPH, maximum of 40 MPH. When a radar gun is used from inside the house, the correct speed for a singles or handicap target must be a minimum of 44 MPH, maximum of 45 MPH. The correct speed for the right target of a doubles pair must be a minimum of 41 MPH, maximum of 42 MPH.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
We used the gun parallel to the launch platform INSIDE the house. We were not setting to the stake. we were setting to the 44 MPH mark. We noted the distance to the stake as an additional piece of information. The wind was small in magnitude but dead head on.

rod
 

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Ahhh, inside the house, perfect then after the bands are warmed up. Sorry, I ASSumed you were setting them outside the house to that speed. Harv
 

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The speed rules and tough head and tail winds don't exactly work well together. Depending on the wind velocities encountered day in and out, low speeds may mean an unstable target. Low speed also means less target rotation which is known to help stabilize a clay target making it easier to break.

The speed rule is to assume a bluebird day of shooting and it does work well on such days but not everyday we shoot in western winds. (East side too!!) I'd rather have a tad more speed and stabilized target than attempting to shoot rainbow targets holding to the speed rule. It's impossible to set targets for decent scores accordingly without further stabilizing it? I see so many targets wasted by clubs trying to please the customer it's pathetic!! The wind isn't the problem, the speed rule is!! Wasted targets help raise the price of shooting?

Try speeding up some practice targets and learn how even slight winds affect the clays flights when such wind conditions are present? Our speed rule needs amended to counteract and somewhat reduce the effects of head and tail winds!!

Gene Hapney
 

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I don't enjoy Doubles anymore since I got the Double Release trigger but I really hate short 'Jack in the Box' Doubles targets especially with a tail wind.
 

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My sense of timing has completely disappeared with Double Release. I can inkball the first bird but the barrel is still climbing and when I swing over to the 2nd bird the gun just goes off with no trigger control at all. I have had the trigger slowed down and I still cannot handle it. I wish I would have stayed with Release/Pull but it is too late now to go back.
 

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If you add spring to stabilize targets you will usually find that they are still stable when your gun is empty.


jim brown
 

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Jim Brown, next time your down my way and it's a tad windy, I will prove it to you my friend!!

I know all about you setting targets and all that but have you actually tried that approach to see how it works when winds rear up?

HAP
 

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Jim, that's enuff if your mind isn't open to trying something different in an attempt to improve on an idea? Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

HAP
 

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Hap, I have see spring added many times to stabilize targets in the wind, particularly doubles. The result is always the same, lower scores. As you know I have A long history so I have seen it tried many times.


jim brown
 

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Sorry Hap old buddy, I have to side with Jim on this one. Like I said, speed kills, scores. I think Kiner would concur. Harv
 

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I hafta say my friends, you guys may be helping make a case for an even easier softer target down the road one day?

Speed does increase target difficulty on a bluebird day!! There's absolutely no denying that fact at all and that isn't my point! Considering that doubles set at 39 mph isn't enough speed to get the RPMs necessary for better target stability in wind conditions with a Pat trap is the point! And, the Pat trap will speed up after it warms up!! When a tail wind downs either the right or left target before a shot can be made, simply raising the targets elevation gives you a rainbow target to take a shot at falling second target. I know, I've broken several such targets here in Tucson about a foot off the ground on a second quick shot in fierce winds! Some of the broken pieces on the ground also hit in addition!

The mere mention of more speed seems to scare some trap shooters when it may help them break more targets under certain circumstances!! The way the speed rule is written doesn't allow any latitude and that isn't the best rule for decent scores on windblown clays! I'd guess it's alright with everyone to set targets above the height parameters but not the speed??

HAP
 
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