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Pat, you are right of course, but
If you believe it reduces recoil, than it does.
Perceived value is the only real value.
If you pay money for it, by definition it has a value.
The people who sell it, claimed it had value
The people who sell this stuff are very sincere.
Once you mastered sincerity, you’ve got it made.
 

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More proof. Several years ago I had my wife's MX2000 forcing cone lengthened. She had her "highest ever" single's average the next year. The down side is, every time I've reduced recoil even the reduced recoil caused the same old recoil problems after a few thousand shots.
 

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Less Recoil Explained: A steep forcing cone increases velocity over a very short period of time. A shallow forcing cone increases velocity over a longer period of time. Therefore, the shallow forcing cone has a lower value for acceleration and will consequently yield less acceleration of the shotgun into your shoulder -- less recoil. F=MA, Force = Mass x Acceleration. It is never just velocity, it is the change in velocity over time that effects recoil.

Higher Muzzle Velocity, Lower Recoil Explained: The reason that higher muzzle velocity can sometimes have lower recoil is because shot accelerating at a slower rate over a longer period of time can yield a higher muzzle velocity, while the lower rate of acceleration yields less recoil. An example would be a car accelerating quickly to 30mph that pins you to your seat while a car accelerating slowly to 60mph will not. Again, recoil is not related to velocity, it is related to acceleration.

Improved Shot Pattern Explained: All shot patterns are three dimensional. There is a certain density that is likely to break a bird (I am sure that someone knows the number), anything more is a waste. If you lengthen the shot pattern to obtain the optimal density, evenly, over the longest length possible, you will have more margin for error, and will break more birds. A two dimensional shot pattern test will not show this. Same number of pellets, same choke, same pattern in 2 dimensions, different pattern in 3 dimensions.

Smity
 

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Smity- Your facts are correct but I have difficulty applying them to a shotgun barrel. Acceleration does cause recoil, but any difference in acceleration between two loads takes place beyond the forcing cones.

Also, accelerating shot to a higher velocity over a longer period of time would require a longer barrel and the length of the barrel is fixed.

Shot string? Calculating the distance a bird can move as a 10 foot long shot string passes over the bird clearly shows that shot string is not important. Moving a tilted target less than 2 inches on a two dimensional pattern shot on paper will shot the maximum possible effect of shot string.

just_bob- You are absolutely correct. Perception does have value and what we perceive can be more important that what is actually present.

HMB- Please list the factors which I am omitting.

Pat Ireland
 

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Pat,

Your first post on 12/19 at 5:06am, you left out very important information. After having work done on all your barrels, did you shoot better scores, was your gun more comfortable to shoot recoil wise, and were your target breaks better? HMB
 

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Pat, barrel length was my first thought in Smity's equation, it would extend past the trap house.

hmb, you would have to prove that the better scores were directly attributable to the cone work. It has to be quantitative. If better scores are shot as a result then it will be measurable. Neil can't measure it and no other valid evidence has surfaced so it must be concluded that forcing cone work improves nothing. Perception of recoil and better target breaks are highly subjective, proves nothing.
 

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You think recoil and target breaks are highly subjective, and I think they are a very important subject. When recoil is less and target breaks are better, I can tell, and so can many other shooters on this forum tell. It is truly sad that you think it proves nothing. HMB
 

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HMB- I honestly don't remember if my scores went up or down. But if my scores did change, that would not demonstrate anything about the cone work. We have a local shooter who did not have his forcing cones worked on and his scores have gone up a lot this year. Who would conclude that not having the forcing cones lengthened improved his scores? There are many things that can change scores and picking out one as a determinate is not logical.

If I were to shoot an unaltered barrel for a year (15,000 registered targets) and recorded each target break as smoke, OK, chip and miss, and then had the cones lengthened and kept the same records the next year, I might have a clue, but not proof that the cone work did have an affect.

As far as recoil, I must rely on basic physics. There is a lot of evidence that demonstrates the laws of motion are true.

Pat Ireland
 

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Pat,

You should try trusting your own judgement once in a while, instead of those laws of physics. You might find that you have been mislead. HMB
 

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Leaving physics and the laws of gravity, mother nature and all thats natural and un aside, I've hung around a few smiths in my day (far more than Iam sure they desired) and the one thing that was always stated by a person after shooting their gun with the cone lengthened was how much recoil it took away. You may call it perception but this is a mind game...
 

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EE,

If the shell you just fired has no pressure how much recoil will there be? If you can answer this question, there must be a relationship between pressure and recoil. HMB
 

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MO = BH = LP =LFR

if you're not a scientist "metal out = bigger hole = less pressure = less felt recoil".

quit pesting me I have better thinks to do than to try to teach physics on TS.com
 

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Not being a scientist I probably should stay out of this but what ebsurveyor says does make good sense to me. Add to the equation that barrels are chambered for 2 3/4 in shells and have a felt ridge at the end of the chamber. What effect does thick or thin hulls have on recoil and it would seem that it would also affect the pressures? Does lengthing the forcing cones allow some blowby around the wad lessining pressure/recoil? Yea, I know I should stick to computer programming but I retired from that. LOL Jackie B.
 

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After doing a Super X1,I will agree with pheasantmaster. I did my own,lengthened to 1 1/2 in. I could not believe it was the same gun.(it made that much difference) When I started shoot a Beretta 390,the cone was already longer than an unaltered Winchester so when Ballistic Specialties lengthened it I didn't notice any difference.......Adding to the pot. GOOD LUCK
 

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I continue to be amazed (and amused) by trapshooters, posting on a trapshooting site, throwing out formulae and opining about physics, stating supposed facts as though they are authorities on the subject, who really haven't a clue.

Shall we get out the ballistic pendulum and do a before and after lengthening the forcing cone?

(Don't confuse me with the facts. My mind is made up!)
 

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Good answer Pat, logic works every time. Judgement, which is perception, doesn't.

I'm no physicist, not even a very good trapshooter, but velocity and pressure are related, indirectly related. If I increase my Red Dot load by 1 grain I will increase both pressure and velocity. That is a direct relationship. But I can substitute Green Dot and get the same velocity with lower pressure which proves there is no direct relationship.
 
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