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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just picked up 5000 fio 616 primers at a great deal. I'm wondering how they compare to win 209's and cheddite 209's. I haven't found much data using Fio 616 in Rem. cases with Clay's powder.
 

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Allegedly they are very similar, or milder, than Win. 209 primers. Many people will tell you this; however, a member on here posted load data using some sort of Clays powder and it showed HIGHER pressure with the Fiocchi primers over the Winchester ones. I'm sure it'll be fine but if in doubt make a few and send them off for ballistics testing at a lab, or buy a cheap shotgun to test several of them in at a safe distance away from others.

Most people you meet will load with Cheddite primers to save money. I've had only a couple of issues with Winchester primers where they did not go off. I did verify they were properly seated, clean, and there was powder and what not in the hull. Other than that they've been great and don't cost a whole lot more in the grand scheme of things. Find the cheapest primer you can that works well for your loads in your climate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Allegedly they are very similar, or milder, than Win. 209 primers. Many people will tell you this; however, a member on here posted load data using some sort of Clays powder and it showed HIGHER pressure with the Fiocchi primers over the Winchester ones. I'm sure it'll be fine but if in doubt make a few and send them off for ballistics testing at a lab, or buy a cheap shotgun to test several of them in at a safe distance away from others.

Most people you meet will load with Cheddite primers to save money. I've had only a couple of issues with Winchester primers where they did not go off. I did verify they were properly seated, clean, and there was powder and what not in the hull. Other than that they've been great and don't cost a whole lot more in the grand scheme of things. Find the cheapest primer you can that works well for your loads in your climate.
Thanks for the info
 

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I have found that when using Fio primers, I need to keep using the Fio primers until the hull wears out. If I switch back to domestic primers, after a Fio primer, the domestic primers are loose in the primer pocket. The RCBS Handbook of Shotshell Reloading by Kenneth W Couger has many FIO loadings along side those of domestic primer loadings.

John
 

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They are terrible,, The worst you will find out there,, If you can box them back up and send them to me, I'll get rid of them for you,,

Actually I have loaded Many, many, many, thousands of them in 12, 20 ,28 and 410, Excellent primer,, No need to worry about the primer pocket as I only load 616,

Myself I do a direct sub for win 209.

Enjoy them
 

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dgh, I bought a case of Fio primers to sub out Win primers in order to save some cash like you do. You haven't had any issues at all? I'm sure it'll be fine but I get a little sketched out when I can't find published data.
 

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I contacted Ben at Alliant. He told me that I could use the Fio 616 as a direct replacement to Win 209 with their load data. Have been loading Fio 616 for the last ten years or so with no problems or FTF due to primer. Shooting temp here in Ca. is 32 to 116 degrees. All FTF that I have had have been in Federal Top Gun hulls and due to hull heads sinking in. Bill Hom
 

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I tried emailing IMR almost a year ago about swapping win 209 for fio 616 and they never replied. Thanks a bunch
 

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I contacted Ben at Alliant. He told me that I could use the Fio 616 as a direct replacement to Win 209 with their load data. Have been loading Fio 616 for the last ten years or so with no problems or FTF due to primer. Shooting temp here in Ca. is 32 to 116 degrees. All FTF that I have had have been in Federal Top Gun hulls and due to hull heads sinking in. Bill Hom
Look through these Hodgdon provided data and tell me again that Ben said 1:1 replacement for Win 209. Loads are in Rem shells win 209 and fio616 primers. From http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/shotgun


Hodgdon
Powder Clays
Primer Fio. 616
Wad Fio. FTWI
Maximum Load
Grains 15.5
Pressure 7,700 LUP
Velocity (ft/s) 1,090
Gauge: 12Lead Shot 1 1/8 oz.
Manufacturer Hodgdon
Powder Clays
Primer Fio. 616
Wad Fio. FTWI
Maximum Load
Grains 16.9
Pressure 9,200 LUP
Velocity (ft/s) 1,145
Gauge: 12Lead Shot 1 1/8 oz.
Manufacturer Hodgdon
Powder Clays
Primer Fio. 616
Wad Fio. FTWI
Maximum Load
Grains 18.4
Pressure 10,900 LUP
Velocity (ft/s) 1,200
Gauge: 12Lead Shot 1 1/8 oz.
Manufacturer Hodgdon
Powder Clays
Primer Fio. 616
Wad Rem. Fig. 8
Maximum Load
Grains 15.8
Pressure 8,600 PSI
Velocity (ft/s) 1,090
Gauge: 12Lead Shot 1 1/8 oz.
Manufacturer Hodgdon
Powder Clays
Primer Fio. 616
Wad Rem. Fig. 8
Maximum Load
Grains 17.0
Pressure 10,500 PSI
Velocity (ft/s) 1,145
Gauge: 12Lead Shot 1 1/8 oz.
Manufacturer Hodgdon
Powder Clays
Primer Fio. 616
Wad WAA12
Maximum Load
Grains 15.8
Pressure 9,100 PSI
Velocity (ft/s) 1,090
Gauge: 12Lead Shot 1 1/8 oz.
Manufacturer Hodgdon
Powder Clays
Primer Fio. 616
Wad WAA12
Maximum Load
Grains 16.8
Pressure 10,600 PSI
Velocity (ft/s) 1,145
Gauge: 12Lead Shot 1 1/8 oz.
Manufacturer Hodgdon
Powder Clays
Primer Fio. 616
Wad Windjammer
Maximum Load
Grains 15.9
Pressure 8,100 PSI
Velocity (ft/s) 1,090
Gauge: 12Lead Shot 1 1/8 oz.
Manufacturer Hodgdon
Powder Clays
Primer Fio. 616
Wad Windjammer
Maximum Load
Grains 17.2
Pressure 9,500 PSI
Velocity (ft/s) 1,145
Gauge: 12Lead Shot 1 1/8 oz.
Manufacturer Hodgdon
Powder Clays
Primer Fio. 616
Wad Windjammer
Maximum Load
Grains 18.4
Pressure 10,800 PSI
Velocity (ft/s) 1,200

Hodgdon
Powder Clays
Primer Win. 209
Wad Rem. Fig. 8
Maximum Load
Grains 16.4
Pressure 8,400 PSI
Velocity (ft/s) 1,090
Gauge: 12Lead Shot 1 1/8 oz.
Manufacturer Hodgdon
Powder Clays
Primer Win. 209
Wad Rem. Fig. 8
Maximum Load
Grains 17.5
Pressure 9,700 PSI
Velocity (ft/s) 1,145
Gauge: 12Lead Shot 1 1/8 oz.
Manufacturer Hodgdon
Powder Clays
Primer Win. 209
Wad Rem. Fig. 8
Maximum Load
Grains 18.6
Pressure 11,000 PSI
Velocity (ft/s) 1,200
Gauge: 12Lead Shot 1 1/8 oz.
Manufacturer Hodgdon
Powder Clays
Primer Win. 209
Wad Trapper
Maximum Load
Grains 16.2
Pressure 9,200 PSI
Velocity (ft/s) 1,090
Gauge: 12Lead Shot 1 1/8 oz.
Manufacturer Hodgdon
Powder Clays
Primer Win. 209
Wad Trapper
Maximum Load
Grains 17.3
Pressure 10,500 PSI
Velocity (ft/s) 1,145
Gauge: 12Lead Shot 1 1/8 oz.
Manufacturer Hodgdon
Powder Clays
Primer Win. 209
Wad WAA12
Maximum Load
Grains 16.2
Pressure 8,100 PSI
Velocity (ft/s) 1,090
Gauge: 12Lead Shot 1 1/8 oz.
Manufacturer Hodgdon
Powder Clays
Primer Win. 209
Wad WAA12
Maximum Load
Grains 17.3
Pressure 9,700 PSI
Velocity (ft/s) 1,145
Gauge: 12Lead Shot 1 1/8 oz.
Manufacturer Hodgdon
Powder Clays
Primer Win. 209
Wad WAA12
Maximum Load
Grains 18.4
Pressure 11,300 PSI
Velocity (ft/s) 1,200
Gauge: 12Lead Shot 1 1/8 oz.
Manufacturer Hodgdon
Powder Clays
Primer Win. 209
Wad Windjammer
Maximum Load
Grains 16.8
Pressure 7,700 PSI
Velocity (ft/s) 1,090
Gauge: 12Lead Shot 1 1/8 oz.
Manufacturer Hodgdon
Powder Clays
Primer Win. 209
Wad Windjammer
Maximum Load
Grains 18.1
Pressure 9,100 PSI
Velocity (ft/s) 1,145
Gauge: 12Lead Shot 1 1/8 oz.
Manufacturer Hodgdon
Powder Clays
Primer Win. 209
Wad Windjammer
Maximum Load
Grains 19.4
Pressure 10,500 PSI
Velocity (ft/s) 1,200
 

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See, that's the data that made me second guess the swap. ^^^

Now, is that the only published data that contradicts the swap being safe? Is it possible there was some variable that came into play or possible typos when that data was published? From what I recall, the Fiocchi's were supposed to be slightly milder than the Win 209 primers.
 

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Anti.......had lots of No Fires with F616's in my K-M32 in 20 & 28 gauges using a Briley tube set. However, all W209's reloads fired normally. So, I quit the F616's in the small gauges. Same loading formula and hulls was used. The difference was the primers. I just quit the Fiocchi's to make life simpler for myself. Of course, YMMV.

Ernie
 

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I will never tell anyone to load this load or that load,,

I will tell you though I do NOT load 1350 fps loads No need

I have direct swapped and will continue to do so.

However you and ONLY you need to decide what you want to do.

DGH
 

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Like Hose'em down states

Pick a primer you like, that works for you, and run with it.

The great primer debate will go on forever,
Same as what powder.
same as 7 1/2's or 8's

DGH
 

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Our club president sells us cases of Fiocchi intl. loads at a discount and the only thing preventing me from reloading them are the wads. Another club member attempted to load the Fiocchi hulls with American wads and the powder migrated terribly. I believe the 078 Lightning wad is what I need but they're pretty pricey. Any other sources aside from BP?
 

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Flashmax---I said Ben at Alliant and Alliants data using Win 209.. Where did Hodgdon come into play ? Bill
You said that Ben said it was a 1 for 1 swap. It isn't. You didn't qualify it as to what powder, or what hull, or what wad. You said Ben said 1 for 1.
 

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Like Hose'em down states

Pick a primer you like, that works for you, and run with it.

The great primer debate will go on forever,
Same as what powder.
same as 7 1/2's or 8's

DGH
Sooooo DGH ....what powder? and which is it 7 1/2 or 8's....LOL

Seriously though....since I am new to "SHOTSHELL" reloading...I have reloaded rifle and pistol...to start with when I ordered primers...I had 2000 AACF hulls and 2000 Federal Hulls...I ordered 5000 primers of each brand to use with their hulls until I learned more I didn't want to take any chances....But that just me!

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