[thisjed]

Finally back at the club today, first time in a LONG time and it was GREAT! Had my daughters in tow as well. We shot 8 rounds all together, they're practicing up for the start of their youth season this weekend.

It was also the first time with the team's Xero S1. What a crazy device, it provides so much data it's almost overwhelming. Clay speed, shot speed, pattern location, reaction time...

The good and the bad? It really didn't show me high or low or somewhere other than around the clay. So, good news there I guess. I was 19 inches low on my miss, yikes! Raised my head on that one... There's really no bad. Easy to setup, easy to interpret. The additional tripod is essential, placing the unit at a height for easy viewing. Can't wait to use it team wide this weekend, should be invaluable for getting people dialed in...

I attached some pics of the data from my handicap round. Figured it's kind of fun seeing the output...enjoy!

 

[o-hale]

I have no idea what this is but sure looks interesting.
Is there a reason for the high percentage of left hand targets?

 

[thisjed]

Is there a reason for the high percentage of left hand targets?

Good question. Not likely, just the way the targets came when I called pull, unless there's something goofy with the trap, but they're well maintained, so unlikely. Just the luck of the draw I guess?

 

[Pull & Mark]

Just a FYI as it were. If you shot 19 inches below a target. You did "Not Lift Your Head"!!! If you shot 3 ft. above the target you lifted your head. You would never shoot below it, if you lifted your head!!! Sounds to me like you had a "Premature Ignition". LOL. Pulled the trigger a tad early perhaps? break em all Jeff

 

[trapshootinkid25]

Just a FYI as it were. If you shot 19 inches below a target. You did "Not Lift Your Head"!!! If you shot 3 ft. above the target you lifted your head. You would never shoot below it, if you lifted your head!!! Sounds to me like you had a "Premature Ignition". LOL. Pulled the trigger a tad early perhaps? break em all Jeff

I disagree. Lifting your head almost always results in shooting under and/or behind a target. I understand why, in theory, you would think you’d shoot over a target when lifting your head. But one almost always stops moving the gun with a head lift, so the target is not pointed with the new bead-eye-bird relationship.

 

[thisjed]

I too understand why raising the rear sight (your eye) in turn should cause someone to shoot high ... assuming the rear sight (your eye) stays in line with the front bead. My gut on this miss was - the entire plain lifted with my eye and/or the gun stayed down, however you want to look at it. I feel comfortable with my assessment, but totally understand both ways and see both while coaching.

Thanks for the thoughts guys!

 

[Pull & Mark]

Lifting your head almost always results in shooting under and/or behind a target.

Your dead Wrong!!! Raising the comb of your shotgun raises your POI. When you lift your head its like raising your comb. The more you lift your head. The more you raise your POI. If is see a shooter consistently shooting over targets, its a sure sign this shooter is raising his/her head during the shot process!!!!

I have no clue as to why you would shoot behind a target if you raise your head. Unless your eye stopped looking at the target. Your body will always slow down your move to the target if you lose sight of it!!! This is a common problem with shooters who try to measure there shots. As soon as one stops looking at the target the body slows its move to the bird. This will cause shooters to shoot behind the bird when the eye is trying to find the bird again after looking at the barrel. Maybe you'll be able to figure it out in time? As I doubt you'll believe me now. break em all Jeff

 

[trapshootinkid25]

Your dead Wrong!!! Raising the comb of your shotgun raises your POI. When you lift your head its like raising your comb. The more you lift your head. The more you raise your POI. If is see a shooter consistently shooting over targets, its a sure sign this shooter is raising his/her head during the shot process!!!!

I have no clue as to why you would shoot behind a target if you raise your head. Unless your eye stopped looking at the target. Your body will always slow down your move to the target if you lose sight of it!!! This is a common problem with shooters who try to measure there shots. As soon as one stops looking at the target the body slows its move to the bird. This will cause shooters to shoot behind the bird when the eye is trying to find the bird again after looking at the barrel. Maybe you'll be able to figure it out in time? As I doubt you'll believe me now. break em all Jeff

If you read and comprehended my whole post, you would know that your entire post says 1) much of the same and 2) I predicted your response and poor understanding in mine...

Very few shooters shoot over targets consistently. When you lift your head, the gun doesn’t usually go with it. You’re operating under a logical fallacy.

But it’s good that you feel strongly enough about your own skills and understanding to assess the other shooters at your club.

Gimme a break.

 

[Pull & Mark]

Very few shooters shoot over targets consistently.

I see it all the time on Strait-a-way's!!! I knew before I posted my second response. I was probably going to be spitting into the wind!!! Yes, I did try to grasp your posts meaning. But, its too full of holes to make any sense to me. Since most head lifts happen on strait-a-ways its impossible to be behind the target. In over 45 years of shooting, I've never seen any shooter who lifts there head. Shoot Low and Behind a Target in any Shooting Sport!!! I shoot all 3 shooting sports you see, not just Trap. I have seen shooters who shot low and behind targets many times. All of them had poor (improper) gun swings though. They all used there upper body (shoulders) to move the shotgun left and right. As they ran out of swing there shoulders lowered the gun, so they would shoot low and behind targets on a regular basis. Enjoy your shooting, and have a nice day. break em all Jeff

 

[perazzidave]

Jed,

I'd like to know what shell you were shooting? Were they reloads or factories, if factories what brand, speed, and shot size and weight. I wonder how accurate the speed of the shells are on that device. Neat looking readout.

 

[trapshootinkid25]

I see it all the time on Strait-a-way's!!! I knew before I posted my second response. I was probably going to be spitting into the wind!!! Yes, I did try to grasp your posts meaning. But, its too full of holes to make any sense to me. Since most head lifts happen on strait-a-ways its impossible to be behind the target. In over 45 years of shooting, I've never seen any shooter who lifts there head. Shoot Low and Behind a Target in any Shooting Sport!!! I shoot all 3 shooting sports you see, not just Trap. I have seen shooters who shot low and behind targets many times. All of them had poor (improper) gun swings though. They all used there upper body (shoulders) to move the shotgun left and right. As they ran out of swing there shoulders lowered the gun, so they would shoot low and behind targets on a regular basis. Enjoy your shooting, and have a nice day. break em all Jeff

Your ramblings are entertaining. I like reading extraneous opinions regarding why people do things totally unrelated to the original point. Thanks!

Yes, head lifting is more common on a straight away. But when they aren’t, the losses tend to be low and behind because it’s shared with stopping gun movement. Also, the target moves in space. Just because it’s a straight away, unless you are moving in a straight line to the target, you can certainly still shoot behind a straightaway. That being said, I understand your point. Hence my original statement of “and/or” to cover those instances not on straights.

I’m glad your 45 years of experience have been enjoyed in all 3 shooting disciplines. I also shoot all three, but I only really compete in trap. And that’s what we are talking about here. Trap targets.

And the fact remains that when you lift your head, the tendency is to shoot under a target. It doesn’t matter what you believe. That’s what happens in most cases. If I had a nickel for every person who thought they were shooting over targets but were under, I’d have a nice meal.

I hope you enjoy your shooting as well.

 

[trapshootinkid25]

Finally back at the club today, first time in a LONG time and it was GREAT! Had my daughters in tow as well. We shot 8 rounds all together, they're practicing up for the start of their youth season this weekend.

It was also the first time with the team's Xero S1. What a crazy device, it provides so much data it's almost overwhelming. Clay speed, shot speed, pattern location, reaction time...

The good and the bad? It really didn't show me high or low or somewhere other than around the clay. So, good news there I guess. I was 19 inches low on my miss, yikes! Raised my head on that one... There's really no bad. Easy to setup, easy to interpret. The additional tripod is essential, placing the unit at a height for easy viewing. Can't wait to use it team wide this weekend, should be invaluable for getting people dialed in...

I attached some pics of the data from my handicap round. Figured it's kind of fun seeing the output...enjoy!

View attachment 1688295 View attachment 1688297 View attachment 1688299 View attachment 1688301 View attachment 1688303

This is such a great feedback tool. Looks like you were really hitting them well. Keep it up.

 

[o-hale]

My thoughts would be that I shot under the target or behind it due to not following through with the proper swing, I stopped because I knew I was about to demolish that target.
I was totally locked on that target just don’t know why I missed it, there should have been a ball of smoke, yep lifted my head.
And you are both right, mostly straight aways or quarter angles.
In most of those situations I don’t see it come out of the house and/or I’m not looking out in front of the house properly, probably have my eyes on the front bead.
End result is the same whether I shot over it, under it, behind it, stopped my gun, etc, it is a lost target due to my inability to maintain focus for the couple of seconds it takes.

 

[thisjed]

I'd like to know what shell you were shooting? Were they reloads or factories, if factories what brand, speed, and shot size and weight. I wonder how accurate the speed of the shells are on that device. Neat looking readout.

I was using new Winchester Super Target. 1 1/8 ounce of 8 shot. I don't have the box in front of me, but thought they were 1,145 fps. So, looks like the unit is reading the shot at 100 fps more than it should??? Not sure if it matters or if anyone else is seeing similar readouts? I'd have to ask their customer support...

 

[perazzidave]

I was using new Winchester Super Target. 1 1/8 ounce of 8 shot. I don't have the box in front of me, but thought they were 1,145 fps. So, looks like the unit is reading the shot at 100 fps more than it should??? Not sure if it matters or if anyone else is seeing similar readouts? I'd have to ask their customer support...

I don't know how accurate the speed of shells might be or the accuracy of this Garmin device. I was surprised to see the fastest from the slowest to be 42 fps difference. Maybe it's not much of a speed difference in all reality.

Years ago I had a friend ask if he could cronograph my single loads so I gave him a box at random at a shoot in Victoria, BC. He picked out 10 and cronographed them at his home gun club. He told me they were the most consistent reloads he had ever cronographed. They were 10 fps apart on all 10. He then checked another 10 because of the consistancy and they were in the same window.

PD

 

[jsraney]

Perhaps using the Xero S1 will tell you if you're consistently lifting your head? I've always been under the impression by lifting your head the barrel goes down or remains static in conjunction with the head going up along with the target? I know if I keep my head pinned to the comb I'll ink the target, but if I lift it a little I'll start knocking off the bottom of the target, not the top. Just my opinion. Can one of you physicists/math whizzes please confirm or deny my analysis?