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Discussion Starter #1
A couple ugly incidents between people which I've personally witnessed lately, and a monetary dispute currently on TS.com, has reminded me that many people in our society have forgotten the value of HONOR and PERSONAL INTEGRITY. Our culture does not seem to respect the value of an individual's reputation as much as it did in the past. Of course this isn't always true but, in general, don't we seem to be cheapening ourselves and letting our standards of behavior and conduct slip a bit? This might be even more true of the younger generation, probably because parents are forgetting to teach and exemplify these personal standards.

If you agree, let's give some examples of honor, integrity and good reputation, and remind everyone of the value these things have. Let me provide one of several I recall:

I once got into a nasty monetary dispute with an employee at a sheet metal shop which had fabricated a custom part for me. The employee basically accused me of lying about what we had agreed to, so I demanded to see the owner. As I waited for the owner it occured to me that I had zero evidence to support my side of the story, despite it being 100% true. The owner was sure to take the side of his own employee and I was either going to have to pay the higher price or leave without my important part. The owner appeared and, just as I began to tell my side, he interrupted me and asked me my name. I told him my name and he just stared at me for 5-10 seconds. Then he asked me my father's name and where I grew up. This seemed odd and irrelevant to me but I answered. He handed me the part and said "Here you go, NO-CHARGE." He even apologozed for the misunderstanding. I hadn't even told my side of the story, or what portion of the price I was disputing. The next time I went back, I asked to see the owner again. I told him I didn't feel right about having paid zero and I wanted to know why he took my side over his own employee's. He told me that when he was a teenager his car broke down and he was lucky enough to flag down a passing tow truck, but he didn't have enough money to pay for the tow or repairs. The tow truck driver saw he was a desperate kid and gave him a break, towing the car for free and even told him exactly how to fix it himself. That incident had happend 50 YEARS ago, in a town 30 miles away, and the tow truck driver happened to be my Dad. More than 10 years after my father's death, and half a century after he did some kid a small favor, Dad's name and reputation came back to benefit me. The sheet metal shop owner said "I only met your Dad once, but I knew him well enough to know he didn't raise a liar."

What examples would you be willing to share?

-Gary
 

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When it comes to money, most people have no morals, integrity and common decency. Seems the almighty dollar takes the lead role in some folk's lives.

Unfortunate.

Curt
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Curt/Bulge: Aren't you guys a little too cynical? I've been around my share of deadbeats and greedy people, and I have multiple family members who have owed me money for years, but I don't let those negative experiences skew my entire view of the world. There are still a LOT of very decent and nonorable human beings around. I'm blessed to have several of them as friends, they inspire me and give me hope for the world, and I wish the same for you.

-Gary
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I hear ya. I was channel surfing and briefly paused on a TV show called Real Hollywood Housewives or something. One of them brought home a big chocolate bunny and the whole family mauled it, biting and breaking off chunks and eating it like pigs. The price tag on it was $1000. When I think about all the struggling familes in the world and what that money could do for them, the shamelessness of this disgusting act made me want to puke. But it's important to remember that sickening coastal people like these do not represent most Americans.

-Gary
 

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Here's the thing. The interference of the government in the marketplace has made it impossible for all but the most gifted and energetic to make an honest dollar. Starting with cheating on their taxes (a genuine oxymoron) people have learned you can't make any money honestly so everyone has turned to the con as a way to make some money. America has become a nation of con artists. I see young people today who have grown up in this "the name of the game is to con someone out of their money" and this is simply the standard any more. I am shocked by the attitudes I see expressed by young people. Still in their teens they speak the language of the con.

Forgive me for conning you out of your original point GW22 but this is something I have really noticed, and it is a chill wind for America's future. One doesn't produce something to make some money any more, one runs a con.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Wireguy, I also see some of what you describe. But let's not go off the deep end.

Consider the facts: The United States' Gross Domestic Product remains the highest in the world BY FAR. It is approximately equal to those of all 27 countries of the European Union combined. And despite what our government and unions have done to our manufacturers, our factories still produce as much as China's despite our having less than 1/4 their population. It's not mathematically possible for all this to be a "con."

Our culture and values are certainly changing -- primarily because we've allowed government, media, and Hollywood to get out of control. But the heartland of America remains hard-working, productive, conservative, morally decent, and powerful.

-Gary
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Ertz:

Good for you. Taking a stand and "Voting With Your Feet" is the American way.

For example, before General Motors went on welfare I was a 30-year loyal customer with three GM vehicles in my driveway. After they stabbed America in the back, I got rid of all three and no one under my roof will ever own another one.

Honor and Integrity isn't just about having it yourself, it's about requiring it of others. I bought Ford.

-Gary
 

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Martin, my husband, is the best example I know (besides my grandmother, who has passed) of someone who has honor, integrity, and a good reputation. He is a good family man who takes care of his elderly mother and uncle (who live with us), and he does it with grace.

His word and his name are good here in Kansas, and people know it. Those who know him well will tell you the same.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Recurvy:

God Bless Martin and you. I hope the two of you raise a bunch of kids just like yourselves (or already did).

-Gary
 

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recurvyarcher- I do know Martin and he has enough integrity and honesty for himself and many others. If he would like to share some of it with me, I will gladly send you a self addressed stamped envelope.

Pat Ireland
 

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GW22:

You asked for examples of honor, integrity and good reputation. How ‘bout this??

Carol Moseley Braun represented Illinois in the United States Senate from 1993 to 1999. She was later a candidate for the Democratic nomination during the 2004 U.S. presidential election. Yesterday (November 20, 2010), Ms. Braun kicked off her campaign to be the next mayor of Chicago.



In 1989 Ms. Braun deposited a check for $28,750 into a personal account. The check actually belonged to Ms. Braun's mother - Edna. Edna owned property in Alabama on which she'd sold the timber-harvesting rights. The $28,750 check was a royalty payment.

At the time Edna Moseley was staying in a Chicago nursing home with Medicaid paying her expenses. As most folks know, Medicaid is reserved for the near-indigent—not owners of real estate generating $28,750 royalty checks. The royalty should have been used to reimburse Medicaid; instead, Carol Moseley-Braun divvied up the money with her two siblings. When the situation became public, Ms. Braun apologized and reimbursed Medicaid $15,240.

I’m thinking an apology and partial reimbursement (after the situation became public) should qualify a Chicago politician for an “honor, integrity, and good reputation” award.

sissy
 

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Sissy--you are correct. The fact that a politician (Chicago or otherwise) apologized and said that they were sorry for getting caught being an untrustworthy, lowlife thief does indeed qualify them to be used as an example of Honor and Integrity. Just think, if they hadn't been caught in their sham then there would have been no reason for them to demonstrate their committment to truth and personal integrity.
 

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I shot in a tournament with a guy that was a skeet shooter and we were shooting trap. The prize was 100 dollars for high gun. He shot at a broken target and hit it. I stopped the squad and said it was an illegal/ no target. He said he hit it and the discussion about a broken/no target started. He said the puller is the final decision. The puller was not paying attention and a really dumb kid--should not even be there. The kid said he did not see it, SO THE GUY GOT A FREE HIT. The skeet shooter has the same type of rules that the trap guys do. He got to keep the target but fortunately he did not win. I did not care who beat him but he "did not play by the rules?? Motordoc
 

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About 15 years ago I returned home from a business trip to Europe - landing at JFK. The flight was late and I missed my connection to Philly (I live just outside the city).

My options were to spend the night at JFK, or to rent a car and drive.

Weather and traffic were horrible but I drove home - took closer to 4 hours than the normal 2 ~ 2 1/2.

I was exhausted and turned the car in the next day.

I have two wallets: a "home" wallet and an "away" wallet - and sometime during the trip I switched from one to the other. I did not realize the "away" wallet slipped between the seats of the car.

About one week later I got a phone call from Hertz - they had been trying to find me (I had recently moved, so the address was not entirely accurate). Once they were happy that I was who they were looking for they sent the wallet on to me. ALl the credit cards and money were right where I left them (A few hundred dollars in bills).

Needless to say, Hertz is the only rental company I use.

David D
 
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