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Discussion Starter #1
With the great ammo supply shortage I have had to resort to the unthinkable-changing shells! I usually-no I always shoot Federal Top Gun 3 dram 7.5 shot. for handicap. They work great for me on the 27 on call targets for protector. For shootoffs I use 3 1/4 dram behind 6 shot usually made by Estate or Federal Ultra Clays.

Well its been hard to find Federal Top Guns all of a sudden so I thought I would try the Estate Handicap load. They were marked as 1250fps the same as Top Gun 3 Dram. The Estate 3 1/4 shells always did me right. I could smash targets at 60 yds with them. So I thought there would be no change and it would be all right to go with the comparable Estates.

I shot in a meat shoot with freezing conditions and was very spotty and blamed it on the cold. There was one shot that surprised me where I had a very long lead and thought I would miss and it completely pulverized it.

Went to a new years shoot and was very spotty again. This time it was beautiful out and I had no excuses. Some I may have been off on. Others were right where I wanted to be. One shot I led by a canoe length and chipped the tail end off. After 7 shoots of pitiful losses my buddy said that my shell didn't look like it had enough power. He saw my shot stream and it looked like decent placement but nothing broke. So I changed out with my shootoff shell and whammo 13 straight hits and two first place tickets. Estates with 3 and 1/4 dram and 6 shot worked like a charm.

I told another friend and he said Estate "handicaps" were complete junk they didn't pattern worth a damn. He broke 25 on the 16 in league with Rios went back and put his Estate Handicaps in and broke 16/25. Changed the shell and got a 48 and 49 the rest of the night. Took home the Estates and patterned them and there was none.

Has anybody else had this experience and does anybody want half a case of these?
 

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I'm hoping to ink a deal with Federal as a Pro-Shooter, so I most likely will be biased. I decline to pile on.
 

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Won four boxes of a Estate shells one time. Used one box on the next event then gave the other three away. Never again with Estate.

There was one positive that come out of it. After shooting that one box I decided to reload all my own.
 

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I shoot the 2 3/4 dram 8s From 16 to 27 yards and have no problem with them. I have not shot any of the Estate Handicap shells. If they are as bad as you say I will stear clear of them, but I like the 2 3/4 dram shells.
 

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When you said you took them home and pattern them and there was none. Can you explain that a little better?

Ajax
 

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From what I understand Federal makes Estate shells in the same factory as their Federal Gold Medal & Top Gun shells. I have only shot 2 flats of Estate but noticed no difference in them. My 2 cents
 

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I've shot Estates for years since Federal took them over and have always had very good results. I understand Federal has outsourced it's Estate production to China and these shell lack the same quality performance as Federal's domestic product.

Surfer
 

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The last batch of Estates I bought were called Cheddite Estates. 3 dram 7 1/2's 1 1/8 oz 1200 fps, GTL12HN 7.5. On each box it says "Made in France, imported in the USA by Estate, Anoka, Mn 55303".

I believe they kick more.
 

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I honestly think that If I loaded your gun and you did not see what shell I loaded it would not matter. Granted, the shells would have to be equal loads, just different brands.It's the guy pulling the trigger, not the shell or the gun, most of the time.
 

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There is a BIG difference between the Estate SuperSport loads, and the Estate Dove & Target loads. The SuperSports are made in the same plant as the Top Guns, and probably have identical components.

Which ones did you have?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I will take a picture of the boxes. I shot some 16s with them and I'd like to blame a few misses on them too. I did hit everyone on the 25 yard line with them though. I'm thinking they will work better in the warmer months but still am leery.

I did not pattern them. I don't have the place to do so. My friend did and I can't say for sure exactly what he meant, but I took it as there was no consistency. Denser in different places each time? It felt to me like they were just slooow.

Don't get me wrong. The first flavor of estates I used I love. I use them for pickups and shootoffs and I have a lot of faith in them. There is something different about the "handicap" version.

We tore apart an estate shell once and compared it to a federal top gun. The components looked exactly the same. The only thing I could tell was different was the rim on the estates were slightly shorter.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Jack, I don't think protector and meat shoots are covered in the ATA bylaws either.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Wingmaster78, I'd like to believe that as well and I did up until yesterday.

I can PM you my address if you would like these shells. :)
 

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I have two Estate boxes in front of me as I type this. A white box with red Estate that held Dove and Target Load, says "Made in France Imported in the USA by Estate, Anoka, MN 55303". The Estate Super Sport Competition Target Load box is red and cream color and says: "Estate Anoka, Mn 55303 Made in USA. -Ed
 

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One thing that I notice with the estate shells is that when shooting next to someone who is using them you will notice the wad will separate almost all the time, the base flying one way and the cup the other.I normally see the estate shells a lot during our winter league here. George
 

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I bought some premium ammo and left it in the ice cold truck the night before a shoot....Cant believe so many missed shots!!! (sarcasim)
 

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George MT,
Federal has used a two piece wads in certain shot shells for a number years.

Correction: I am obviously incorrect when I said Federal is outsourcing to China when fact it seems be to France.

Surfer
 
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