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Discussion Starter #1
"I have two Estate boxes in front of me as I type this. A white box with red Estate that held Dove and Target Load, says "Made in France"

Without a doubt these are the worst performing trap loads of 2013.

Your experience?
 

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Jack, I gave them to my son. Don't want him to beat me. He was smart about it and stashed them with the dove loads. Darn!
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I have opened up a couple of them. They have a solid thick s type of pedestal under a 4 petal wad. The lead is obviously very soft the way that they disperse on the pattern board. You need to shoot these with your tightest full choke.

I have six boxes of them left and cannot sell them for $6 even though our club gets $7.50 for a box of Rios. The four boxes that I did shoot lowered my average just enough to take me out of the money.

I cringe every time I hear of some one comparing them to Top Guns because they are owned by Federal. The wads are completely different. They are not the same.
 

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I really like Estates and have run several 100's with them, BUT they are NOT the version of Estates that you are talking about. The ones I shoot are in red and yellow or green and yellow boxes and are Estate Super Sport Competition shells. They are made in the USA in Anoka MN, and yes they are the same as Top Guns.
 

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The sad part of these shells is that a lot of shooters will buy them based on their low cost, not their performance. It always amazes me that a serious trap shooter with a very expensive trap gun will try to save a few pennies shooting crap shells down their barrels and then turn around and complain that they never shoot a high enough score to win anything. The same is true of the Remington Gun Club shells. Yes, there are a few shooters out there that have shot 98,99,or 100 with them, however, they are few and far between, and they always fail to mention how many poor scores they have shot using these very same shells. While a good quality shell won't guarantee great scores, they will produce consistently better scores than the cheapo shells will.... Just my opinion... Dan Thome (Trap2)
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Ditto on the Gun Clubs, their consistency could be better.

The most consistent inexpensive loads for me have been the Top Guns
 

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Frostyman is telling the rest of the story. The made in USA Estates are very good shells and are the equivelant of the Top Gun. I have banged out alot of very good scores with the Tan/red stripe box estates including a few 100x100 singles. Any losses I had were not tha fault of the ammo.

The white box Estates and particularly the Dove load are crap and shouldn't be wearing the Estate label.
 
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