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anyone have some load data or a source for E3 using anything besides remington 209P primers.
looking for 1 1/8 at 1180-1200
When ClayDot first hit the market I was looking for data for 1200 fps 1 1/8 loads. I found some in the Clays data in the Hodgdon data base and called Alliant to find out if there were any adjustments I should make before I used the Clays data as Alliant seemed to have recommended. I got in touch with Paul Furrier at Alliant and posed my question to him. The first words I heard was "Don't do it!!".

Seems Clay Dot was formulated for 1 oz loads and the extra pressure that would be generated by the additional 1/8 of shot would cause the chamber pressure to spike quickly to a level in excess of the SAAMI max. (I know... I had some 1 1/8 loads tested that pushed 15000 PSI). IF ALLIANT PUBLISHED E3 DATA USING ONLY ONE MILD PRIMER, THAT TELLS YOU SOMETHING ABOUT HOW QUICKLY THAT POWDER BUILDS PRESSURE. DON"T EXPERIMENT!
 

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There is plenty of data for other primers, but unfortunately not for use in Remington shells. Alliant's data lists Rem 209P primers for STS and GC shells, Win 209 primers for AA shells, etc. Try calling Alliant and asking them about substituting the primers you want to use. They may be able to suggest some loads where using a hotter primer won't exceed the SAAMI threshold.
 

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Maybe that's my issue is the hull, I have gobs of sts hulls but no AA. I might can make a trade.
Worth a phone call per Bosni's suggestion. My guess is they'll OK use of the W209 sub for Rem but I'd call first. Pressures look low in the AA hull, but as someone said, e3 may build pressure quickly so it'd be good to check first.
 

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According to the burn rate chart here e3 is one of the fastest burning powders, so good point about the pressure buildup. When I talked to Alliant about a different powder they told me as long as the load was under 8,500 psi I could use whatever primer I wanted. I would still call them first, not sure that applies to e3.
 

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IF ALLIANT PUBLISHED E3 DATA USING ONLY ONE MILD PRIMER, THAT TELLS YOU SOMETHING ABOUT HOW QUICKLY THAT POWDER BUILDS PRESSURE. DON"T EXPERIMENT!
It says nothing of the sort. All it says is that in Alliant's eyes, e3 is no different than any of its other powder in that the general rule is the data will only list primers made by the same company that made the hull. You see this all the time. Only data using Rem primers with Rem hulls, only Win primers with Win hulls.
 

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According to the burn rate chart here e3 is one of the fastest burning powders, so good point about the pressure buildup. When I talked to Alliant about a different powder they told me as long as the load was under 8,500 psi I could use whatever primer I wanted. I would still call them first, not sure that applies to e3.
I got that same answer specifically for e3 loads in STS Hulls. I still backed off half a grain, and decided I liked it that way better anyway <grin>
 

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For 1 oz loads, the W209 primer and green Duster wad tested the same as the published load with the remington primer.

I used green dot with 1 1/8 oz loads. Again, with the W209 primer the load was essentially the same as with the remington primer.
 

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You're right that the data for Green Dot indicates little difference between those loads using the Win 209 vs. Rem 209P, but I don't think you can necessarily safely transfer those similarities to a different powder.

For instance, data for Titewad, which is right below e3 on the burn rate chart, shows much wider differences between the pressure for those primers, e.g. Rem hulls, 1-1/8 oz, 1200 fps, Windjammer wads: Rem 209P 17.6gn, 11,400 psi; Win 209 18.5gn, 11,500 psi. Using a Rem 209P with 18.5gn Titewad in that load would almost certainly be over the SAAMI limit.
 

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You're right that the data for Green Dot indicates little difference between those loads using the Win 209 vs. Rem 209P, but I don't think you can necessarily safely transfer those similarities to a different powder.

For instance, data for Titewad, which is right below e3 on the burn rate chart, shows much wider differences between the pressure for those primers, e.g. Rem hulls, 1-1/8 oz, 1200 fps, Windjammer wads: Rem 209P 17.6gn, 11,400 psi; Win 209 18.5gn, 11,500 psi. Using a Rem 209P with 18.5gn Titewad in that load would almost certainly be over the SAAMI limit.
You're mixing apples and oranges. So far as I am aware, e3 is a flake powder likely made at the Alliant plant in Radford, VA. On the other hand, Titewad is a ball powder, completely different and made at the General Dynamics plant in St. Marks, FL. The ball powders behave differently than flake powders with primers and, for some reason, Rem primers generally burn hotter (meaning generate higher pressures) with ball powders than they do with flake powders. Other ball powders that come out of St. Marks are Nitro 100, Competition, most all the Win powders and Titegroup. Most everything else is a flake powder made at either Radford or the other General Dynamic plant in Canada. So far as I am aware, the only place on the planet that makes ball powders is St. Marks.
 

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Worth a phone call per Bosni's suggestion. My guess is they'll OK use of the W209 sub for Rem but I'd call first. Pressures look low in the AA hull, but as someone said, e3 may build pressure quickly so it'd be good to check first.
You're right, it will build pressure quickly on 1 1/8 oz. loads. Even @ 1200fps. you are on the way to the top limit. Not a good idea.........next.
 

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I called Alliant today and told him that I wanted load data for e3 with Gun Clubs and Cheddite primers and I could obtain wads so that is not a problem. This is what he told me:
1 oz 1150 FPS, 16 grains, CB1100-12 or TGT12
7/8 oz 1200 FPS, 16 grains, WAA12L
7/8 oz 1250 FPS, 17 grains, WAA12L

sorry but I did not write down the pressure.

I did notice that when looking at the website, these were the same loads that used REM209 primers With these components.
ThoughtI would share.
 

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I contacted Alliant for E3 use with cheddites as well, as those are the only primers i can find. Brian's response was:

"Here is the rule of thumb when it comes to a primer swap in shotshells. This is based upon two independent studies where when just the primer was changed, a swing in pressure was noted by as much as 2500 PSI. This was found in not one, but both studies done.
So, if pressures fall between 6500 – 8500 PSI, a primer swap can be done. But, if the pressures fall outside of this window, stick to the tested load recipe.
Thanks,
Duane V. /Technical Service Representative
2299 Snake River Ave.
Lewiston, ID 83501
Alliant/Blazer/CCI/Speer
866-286-7436"
 

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I contacted Alliant for E3 use with cheddites as well, as those are the only primers i can find. Brian's response was:

"Here is the rule of thumb when it comes to a primer swap in shotshells. This is based upon two independent studies where when just the primer was changed, a swing in pressure was noted by as much as 2500 PSI. This was found in not one, but both studies done.
So, if pressures fall between 6500 – 8500 PSI, a primer swap can be done. But, if the pressures fall outside of this window, stick to the tested load recipe.
Thanks,
Duane V. /Technical Service Representative
2299 Snake River Ave.
Lewiston, ID 83501
Alliant/Blazer/CCI/Speer
866-286-7436"
That's what I got from them as well.

Looking through the published data, it appears that they just read smp190 some of the recipes that are under 8500 psi. No 1-1/8 loads, for example, since there are none for e3 that fall within that range.
 
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