Pipe Layer, Terry we can't forget that there is no connection between this web site and the ATA. Anyone can get on this site and bitch. I would like to see how many of these arm chair coaches even shoot registered trap. I have been shooting registered trap for 33 years and have over 475,000 targets in the book. Do not let the experts get under your skin. I have been in the pipeline business all of my life and I see by your name (Pipelayer) that you might have spend some time on a ROW. So as we say in the field there are some loose ends out there. Trevor Dawe. ATA Life Member 8101083