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Discussion Starter #1
As if we needed more proof that Detroit is run by idiots. They want a comparable European level of gas taxes, meaning the 18.4 cents a gallon federal gas tax would be raised to a minimum of $1.80 a gallon. This in order to sell their electric and hybrid cars.<br>
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Gas around $4 a gallon RUINED the US economy last year.<br>
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If this is the best thinking these baffoons can come up with, let them go bankrupt. Because if we get gas prices like that, the rest of us will go bankrupt.
 

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More ignorance from the left coast I see... "Gas around $4 a gallon RUINED the US economy last year." Think again Einstein, the breakdown of the financial industry caused our economic woes. If your business was building or selling fuel efficient cars the increase in the price of a gallon of gas worked to your favor. On the other hand if your meal ticket was an SUV, Pick-Up Truck, or gas guzzling car, you took a hit.

Now, just a few months later, we've seen an increase in the sale of SUVs, Pick-Up Truck, and gas guzzling cars (however slight). Make no mistake, the American public WANTS SUVs, Pick-Up Trucks, and gas guzzling cars. It's a fact, well in those states that don't have beach frontage on the Pacific anyway. Who wants a compact when you can have a Tahoe or an Escalade to haul the family around in.

While I'm not an advocate of taxes (of any sort), I do understand the idea behind this. US consumers are fickle for certain. Their vehicle purchase decision is very much affected by the price of a gallon of gas. Automakers simply can't re-tool over night. It takes 3 years to bring a new vehicle to market.

Car makers could spend loads of cash (TARP funds likely) to design and build hybrids and electrics, only to have them be failures due to a huge drop in the cost of fuel. Most intelligent people in this country know that the idea of man made global warming (or climate change if you prefer) is nonsense. And they know that most all internal combustion engines built today are pretty darn clean burning as is (or they just don't care). So why would they buy a hybrid or electric that is way expensive, replacement batteries cost a fortune, they have limited range, are not roomy, etc., etc., etc., when they can afford to fill up an Escalade???

The point is determining what type of vehicle will be in demand 3 years out, with the volatility of fuel prices, is a pretty tough task...

Are you familiar with the term "ROI"? If you spend a billion dollars to bring a vehicle to market, you need to sell a lot of em' to see some ROI. When what the consumer wants is very much a moving target, caused primarily by the cost of fuel, it's pretty tricky. A crap shoot even.

"Detroit is run by idiots" What an ignorant statement. Many of these execs have more intelligences than a whole county full of Oregonians… cls
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Oh good grief - you sound like a public relations spokesman for GM.<br>
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Do you REALLY believe $4 a gallon gas had no serious detrimental effect on the economy? Give me a break.<br>
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Please cite figures showing sales are up. We still have dealerships going under here from lack of sales.<br>
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So I have to pay more for gas because Detroit vehicles are priced too high for the market? Screw that. $40,000 electric and hybrid cars from Detroit are priced too high regardless of how much a gallon of gas costs. And the specs on them show they get 20% worse gas mileage than an old Diesel Rabbit or Jetta.<br>
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Yeah, Detroit IS run by idiots if they cannot see what $4 a gallon gas will do to this country. And the same goes for anyone who thinks this is not a problem. And for anyone who thinks WE need to pay more taxes to keep Detroit afloat. This is America, built on capitalism, not on socialist corporate welfare. Detroit has the freedom to make a profit. And the flip side of that is they run the risk of failing. It is no longer capitalism but socialism to prop up failing companies with public money, in the form of bailouts or jacked up gas taxes.<br>
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Boy, I really thought I had read it all here. Sheesh.
 

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In their mind, it's a trade-off, between raising cafe standards, or raising gas taxes.

To the auto industry's thinking, the cafe standard hits them directly. It regulates what they are allowed to build, while the customer, with his cheap gas, is clamoring for something else.

The gas tax, on the other hand, hits the consumer directly, and as you said, drives demand for a different type of vehicle. The first scenario, forces the automaker to build something the customer doesn't want. The second, makes the consumer want it, so Detroit knows going in that they can sell it before they sink the money.

I really deplore the whole mess. Because the truth is - we're going to get both.
 

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Lee Iacocca (one of the smartest men in the industry) suggested the government stabilize the cost of gas 30 years ago. He suggested, if crude goes up, lower the gas tax at the pump, if crude goes down, raise the gas tax. Removing the volatility would benefit a lot more than just the auto makers. The shipping industry is just one example, the airlines is another.

I'm in the camp that says no tax is good tax. And believe Ronald Reagan said it best when he said, "Government is not the solution, government is the problem." But even so I understand the thought behind what is being suggested by some. And I'm certainly not so naive to make silly statements like calling extremely intelligent people idiots. Then again, I'm not a Know-it-All from Oregon…

Your uninformed parrot like drivel isn't worth further reply Brian. cls
 

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Discussion Starter #6
If the corporate leaders of Detroit aren't idiots, then please explain why they cannot make vehicles people want to buy. Please explain why people are miffed at reliability and buy Japanese. Please explain why they are going bankrupt and have their hands out for public corporate welfare money.<br>
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Do you REALLY believe these are brilliant people?<br>
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LOL
 

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BO has already made the statement that he thought "it was good that the gas prices went to $4. I just wish it hadn't gone there that fast."
 

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Obama will not raise taxes on gas, he will just tax the crap out of everything else including ammo. One of the few things Americans care about what they pay for it is gas. That is not something this country can afford either and yes high gas prices effect everything in our economy.
 

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If we know anything at all about gas it is that Americans want a sufficient supply at low prices. Gasoline rationing during WW II was difficult to enforce and the gasoline shortages of te 1970's were very unpopular.

I agree with Brian that $4.00 (or higher) gasoline and diesel last year sent the economy into a tail spin. It was the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak.

IMO, any politician who proposes an increase in the gasoline tax, for any reason, should be bombarded with correspondence advising of certain defeat at the polls if he or she supports an increase in the gasoline tax.

Just about all of the major automobile manufacturers can build 4 cylinder vehicles that get over 25 mpg and some vehicles well over 30 mpg for under $20,000. I just cannot see a large market for electric vehicles costing $40,000 and up.

This next year, the first year of President Obama's term, will tell us a lot about our future. I did not support him but I don't think that he is a fool. One year of being responsible for keeping the nation safe and the economy going will open his eyes about how difficult a job President Bush had.

IMO, Detroit wants cheap gasoline and the ability to build and sell larger vehicles, especially trucks and SUV's.


Ed Ward
 

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I also agree that $4.00 gas started the economy going south, BUT money just doesn't disappear. Somebody has it.....congressmen, senators and the big bank fellows. All of the above should have to take a polygraph test or better yet water boarding will work, why do you think the Dem's want to get rid of it. You would be surprised to find out where the money is if you test all these guys. The penalty for these crimes should be death and only one appeal.

I just don't understand how so much white collar crime goes unpenalized.

Gary
 

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My trucker son in law would not agree that the fuel prices didn't affect the economy.

There were fuel surcharges on evertyhing we consume. Prices went up on a lot of goods, and those which didn't were reduced to almost zero profit.

At the time I saw a loaf of bread go from 89 cents to $1.35 in just a couple weeks.

Speculation was the driving force, and I hope when the prices went down, the greedy lost their shorts.

But it looks like they are taking another run at your wallet.

HM
 

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I find it hard to believe $4.00 a gallon for gas is a benefit. My cars get, what I consider good gas milleage, and raising the price only cost more money. I don't drive less, I won't go buy a hybrid, I just pay more. That crap about changing behavior, more so than not, is garbage. To most people, it just adds to the cost of products that they buy and having higher VISA bills each month. High fuel prices are bad for the economy and these Einstein politicians are stupid. We need to stop electing them. Darrell
 

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The Civics and Corollas were not all that great when introduced either. You can also throw the rustbucket Datsuns in the same category. For the record the Civic was introduced in 1972 to compete with American subcompacts rather than the other way around. The Pinto was introduced in 1970 and the Vega in 1971.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Oregon is not asking for a federal bailout. Our governor believes he can tax the crap outta us instead.
 

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Brian in Oregon,


It would seem that ol' Chuckie "understands" government involvement perfectly fine, when it's his retirement plan that's in the balance.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
timberfaller, yes, that's a good point. Also, electric vehicles may emit zero emissions, but, it still takes energy to make them, and it still takes energy to charge them. All that's been done is to shift the problem elsewhere. Either to fossil fuel burning plants, nuclear waste, or dams. For the latter, I love to cheese off the greenies with electric cars by asking them how many salmon per mile they get.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Slic Lee, Oregon is poneering a GPS tracking system that will eventually be installed on new vehicles to pay gas taxes by the mile instead of at the pump. All gasoline pumps will have to be upgraded (what's that going to add to the price of fuel?) and of course there will be another layer of bureaucracy to run the program (again, how much will that cost?). Older vehicles won't be eligible because they would save money under that plan. Also, there will be a tiered tax rate - you'll get charged more for driving during "peak traffic congestion periods". That won't stop people from driving during those time periods, of course, because their work hours are at the whim of their employers. But government will declare they've done something as they fill their coffers with more tax money.
 

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Obama won't raise the gas tax(which would be OVERT and probably political suicide). 4 buck per gallon gas brought the economy to a crawl! He WILL raise many others. The idea is taxes are fine with people AS LONG AS IT"S A TAX ON SOMETHING THEY DON"T USE! Since everybody uses gas, it would be a political hot potato! I am no smoker, but most who do are not aware of the plan to raise cigarette taxes as much as a buck per pack are in the works.Look for unbeleiveable taxes on guns and ammo,more so called LUXURY taxes, and taxes on services.
 
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