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Let me start this post by saying that I firmly believe in the right to responsibly carry. Living in IL, it has been denied to us until now.

I have been helping with a few CCW classes and I know a lot of people who have been taking required 16 hour class. I have concluded that it is way to easy to pass and get a CCW license. Most of the people I have encountered and know never even shot before. Now they are going to be able to carry a gun when they don't even know how to operate one? I know the training is supposed to prepare people to carry but I believe it falls tragically short. These people will take the class, shoot their 30 rounds (at a giant B27 target, only 70% of the shots have to hit the black) and start to carry with no other shooting experience. Frankly, that scares me.

I shoot (a lot) and I know what I can do with a gun and I see these VERY inexperienced shooters that will do nothing to further their training and it worries me.

What are your thoughts?
 

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Are you doing anything to offer them more range time, like maybe offering a range discount to entice them to practice?
 

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rjstubbl,

I agree and dis-agree. Everyone has the right to defend themselves, but not to shoot me in the process. How many people in other states have there cc permits ? How easy was it to get your Utah permit ? It is a very big responsibility !!
 

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It scares me also in my state ... but really its wonderful not to have such a restrictive CCW law. Heck always carried one anyway before.. So I agree with what I feel like Brian is suggesting.
If your helping with those classes do your part by suggesting when the sign up for the class to take a pistol course and also to practice at your place. Teach those that you see so you can protect your laws from being too restrictive.

I like you see people that never have shot but pass the course and shooting skills. Scares the heck out of me... but all they need is time on the range to practice shooting and practice gun safety. That falls on our shoulders as individuals to insure we keep our CCW laws as they are.

Sometimes I wish that you had to hit the bullseye with all shots but I would want to be able to open carry then. If I could shoot that good I feel i deserve to have the right to open carry anywhere i please. In saying that ... that opens a whole different can of worms.
 

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After a 16 hour class they still don't even know how to operate their gun? I realize there are other important things to cover but really........guns aren't that complicated, I'd say the classes need more qualified assistants so a little one-on-one instruction could be provided to those who need it. Those folks have as much right to defend themselves as WE do, maybe we have the obligation to teach them how to do so safely and responsibly?
 

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I agree to as much training as possible. There may be individuals with extensive training and umpteen hours in practice that still couldn't hit the bull in the butt with a scoop shovel. They still have a right to defend themselves, families and homes. How many members would be in the ATA if membership required 98% plus averages? ed
 

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Sitting in the class and qualifying on the line is one thing, but what bothers me and scares me as the common sense and rationalization how people act and react in different situations. I know many individuals who are concealed, but have no business carrying a weapon. Do not know to handle themselves.
 

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Everybody has a right to defend themselves from death or great bodily harm. Most self defense shootings happen within 10 feet. Hard to equate that with target shooting. Training is good but it's hard to practice for a real attack.

You never know what your capable of or not capable of until faced with the threat in real life. And that applies to cops also. Check out the Winston Hayes shooting in Compton in 2005. Police opened fire on an unarmed man when the vehicle started to back slowly toward an officer. Police fired 120 rounds. 43 rounds were reported to have hit the slow moving Ford Expedition and 4 hit the suspect causng minor wounds. Is that what all the training bought?

There are 6 Gander Mountain Academy locations in this country that offer a 300 degree computerized range where you can run a variety of shoot / don't shoot scenarios. Yo can get a pretty good idea of your capabilities in a shoot / son't shoot situation. At the end of the day though, it is just a video game and you know you're going to survive.

Bob
 

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Some people are pretty dense and it takes a long time to drive any common sense though their thick skulls

A few years ago at a family reunion at our place we sat up the trap thrower and proceeded to shoot at the targets, my BIL walked over to me while I was putting more targets it the thrower, and rack a shell into the automatic he was shooting, the barrel was pointed right at my head, and the safety was off

And a bunch of the relatives thought I was being mean as I chewed his ass up one side and down the other and took the gun away from him
 

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The reality is, most people will never be in a position to actually need a gun to defend themselves. If it happens, it will probably be within 10 feet of an attacker.

Anyone (adult) that wants to carry a gun, that isn't a criminal, or mentally unstable, should have a right to carry one. The government shouldn't be in the business of training, testing, or determining who should have the right to carry a gun. Of course, when someone decides to carry a gun, and use it, it should be that person's sole responsibility if anyone is killed or injured. If they screw up, they should be held to the fullest extent of the law, both criminally, and civilly!

Lately, I've seen some people in gun stores talking to store personnel about getting their permits. It's scary to say the least! It's obvious that they don't have a clue about guns. If they were under pressure, I wouldn't want to be near them with a loaded gun.

JMHO,

Steve
 

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As a life long resident of the state of corruption ( Illinois) I'd like to chime in here. Yes we are the last state to have a CC permit, bottom line here is that it is little more than a money maker for the state and the people offering the class. Everyone has the right to self protection both at home and in public. Maybe a class offered or mandated when some one buys a gun could help with lack of experience with firearms, There is no question that there are people getting a CC in this state with little no idea of how to handle a firearm. There are also a lot of people that drive cars with little to no idea of how to handle a vehicle. With all the police/law enforcement agencies in this state and the money that state is making may policing the certified instructors could help with this issue.
 

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I think of carrying a gun in exactly the same way as I look at wearing a seat belt. You don't buckle your seat belt because you EXPECT to crash. You wear it because you know that every once in a while some folks are seriously injured or killed in a crash and you want to reduce the chance of yourself being the one that is seriously injured or killed. Most of us go through life without ever being in a serious crash. But we know it happens.

Most of us will never have to unholster our firearm in self defense. Even fewer of us will ever need to fire that unholstered firearm. But we know it happens and we want to improve our odds of survival.

Sometimes I carry a gun. Most of the rest of the time I carry two. I tend to think of the second one as an airbag.

Bob
 

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I'll bet there have been more accidental deaths at trap ranges than with concealed carry.

Perhaps trap shooters need to take a mandatory gun safety course.

<i>"If it saves just one life..."</i>

(Yes, I'm being sarcastic.)
 

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All of my CCW guns have crimson trace. I'm 71, I don't have the reflexes I used to have. My eyesight is still good. The laser takes the adrenaline equation out & reduces the possibility of collateral damage. I've been upgrading to green lasers as they become available. Have plenty of insurance and a good lawyers # in your phone.



Phil Berkowitz
 

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I didn't read all the threads.

I have to agree that the students of the class should know as much as they can about the gun they have. Just to pass the class at times isn't enough.

When I took the class the instructor who I knew said what are you doing here? I told him I'm here to get my CC Permit. He just chuckled and said you can help with the class. I did. We all helped the people who were not gun people. Most did well but a few did have to have some extra time with instructors.

They all went through the parts of the gun, how it worked, jam's, loading, unloading, cocking and un-cocking. How to dress to a gun. What kind of gun is good for you. Ammo and storage. We even had a law office come in to give them a do and don't with a CCW.

At this club they tried to do their best to get people ready to carry their gun. It wasn't about money but about quality.
 

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Consider for just a few minutes why most of those people the OP is talking about are so ignorant of operating firearms and take into account the simple fact that the States and Cities have made it virtually impossible for joe average to go out and shoot. The Feds have not made things better either. Many/most of the active posters on this message board grew up with guns. Long guns, short guns, rifle guns, pistol guns, revolver guns, pump guns, bolt guns, fold up guns, semi auto guns and even full auto guns for some of us. Many of us grew up in places where a 12 year old kid with a rifle over his shoulder, if noticed at all by the police, would be asked how the hunting was. Guns are tools. No more and no less. If you grow up using tools there is no mystery about them and no mystique about them. The forbidden fruit aspect of guns today is no different in the Garden of Eden where Eve was told NOT to eat of the Fruit but was unable to resist. Law abiding people resist the desire to go shooting and law abiding people restrain themselves from owning guns. The result is ignorance, secrecy, and accidents due to unfamiliarity.

At least these folk are -trying- to educate themselves.

Don T
 

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Anyone getting a CCW that doesn't have prior military/leo training would be wise to join IDPA or some similar discipline. I fear the untrained are going to make some serious mistakes that will get them or innocents killed.
 

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Might be "wise" if they'd join some competitive pistol shooting discipline but probably not very realistic to expect the ones that need it most would do it.

It occurs to me that most juristictions have a shooting range where the sworn law enforcement officers go to practice and do their recurrent qualification, most likely a private taxpayer funded range for LEOs only. Maybe it would be helpful if they'd institute one evening a week when the public would be welcome to use the range under police supervision and with a department firearms training officer there to coach them. Only thing required of the folks would be a current CCW, a willingness to follow range rules and perhaps a small fee to cover the cost of targets, etc.?
 
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