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Discussion Starter #1
To the guys that have combos: Do you make changes in comb height when shooting doubles vs. 16 yard or handicap? Looking at buying a combo, and was curious. I am a new trapshooter, and didn't want to spend the money on something I am not happy with. Thanks, Matt
 

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Matt,

I would have to if my O/U didn't have an adjustable rib. After raising the comb to get the stock set up for handicap, the set-up for the O/U barrels was too high. So I raised the front of the O/U rib to lower the POI. I don't anticipate changing anything now that I've got both sets of barrels adjusted.


enjoy
 

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I hate to say it but changing the rib does nothing to your POI unless you are actually bending the barrel. All POI changes are done with the comb. You can then change the rib to get your figure 8 bead alignment again if you look at such things.

I think it was Trap2 who talked about this at length in another thread and it is repeated in many, many books and articles.

Mike
 

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Thank you for the due respect but I am not wrong. Go to any pattern board and see for yourself. I knew this would probably start a heated debate yet again on this board.

It is well known that to raise POI you raise the comb, to lower POI you lower the comb.
 

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I read all the arguements that trap2 put forth, but I think V10 has stated the proof. He made a rib adjustment and now the gun shoots where he wants. My O/U does not have an adj. rib. I just open the choke for the first shot. The second shot is placed by lots of practice.

JON
 

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There's no heated debate. And there's no need for a patterning board. The empirical evidence generated by breaking targets is all I require.


have fun
 

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I have a combo and probably wouldn't buy one again. For me when I change barrels its not the same. My ribs are fixed so I would need to raise the comb to make it shoot higher,I don't want to be fooling with my comb all the time at shoots so I shoot another gun at long yardage. It is true if you raise the front sight your gun will shoot lower .But without changing the comb your going to have a differnt picture. If I were just starting out I would just get an O/U that you can shoot all the events with and don't worry about all the adjustments. Just have fun..
 

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I am always shocked and amused by the poor grammar on this site so poor grasps of physics, geometry, and trigonometry, should be no surprise.

I don't know if some of you folks are stupid or just lazy.

As an easy proof of what should be a simple concept, imagine your front bead is three feet higher on the top of a three feet high rib. Now imagine sighting up and matching your front bead to the target.

If you still don't think your point of impact will change at least now we know that while you may still be lazy, you are definitely stupid.

Good grief, what a group.
 

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Changing the POI can be accomplished by changing the height of the rear sight (the eye)with comb adjustments or by changing the height of the front sight. K-80's use a different system and are an exception.

Changing the height of the rear of the rib only will change the sight picture and not the POI.

Matt- If you get a combo, I would suggest that you set it up for handicap and then learn to shoot singles and doubles with it. I do not change the comb height between singles and handicap. Some other excellent shooters do recommend that the comb be raised a little for handicap but I am afraid that if I did this, I would forget that the gun is already set up for handicap and I would raise the comb more.

Pat Ireland
 

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We bought a Kolar Combo in May 06. Just finished a clinic with Harlan Campbell this weekend and he patterned the gun.

We will be heading to the Florida State shoot in the morning and here is the plan.

Singles -leave the gun setup the way it is. Handicap - leave the gun setup the way it is. Doubles - leave the gun setup the way it is.

Overview - leave the gun the way it is:) Leave the wrench and the spacers in the truck:)

38-01615
 

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southpark;
It's enlightening to hear from such an intellectual as your self. I certainly hope you don't strain your shoulder or your brain. FD
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Well, I am still confused. I am shooting a BT99 now. Do I need to get a doubles gun and adjust it for doubles. Or do I need a combo? I have heard that the the top shooters that shoot combos, make several adjustments between events. Looking for any and all advice. Thanks, Matt
 

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Pat, as always you are much more polite and patient than I am.

I can only hope that my coarse words at least serve to get through to the thickheaded folks who would not have listened to your calm reason.
 

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After patterning my trap gun I make no comb adjustments for singles, caps or doubles. Shotgun has a fixed rib & has some mods added. Double barrel shoots same pattern as top single & both are at 105 + percent high.
My back up shotgun is patterned the same but I must remove comb shims for shooting doubles as gun will shoot too high. This shotgun has a adjustable rib which is in the low position front & rear. I use the comb only to set the POI. It's not a big deal to add or remove shims or make rib adjustments so you would probably fair ok with a combo.
 

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Matt, you have to do a lot of homework if you want to buy the right combo. That means you have to shoot them, and probably means you'll be borrowing them from friends at the club.

there are lots of things that I require in a combo. First and foremost is all three barrels shoot to exactly the same POI with the same comb and rib setup. Second is both barrel sets feel the same when swinging on a target.

Things I consider very important, but not mandatory are adjustable ribs on both barrel sets. If they are fixed ribs, you have a much harder time adjusting POI if you don't want to change your comb (and I don't). You'll have to do it with barrel length, and that makes matching MOI and swing much harder.

What you don't want is any of the standard, off the shelf combos like Beretta's Gold E combo. Nearly matching the barrel weights does not guarantee the same swing and feel. Their 34" TS moved like lightning compared to the 32" O/U set, even though they weighed the same.

I think Perazzi does a good job on combos. I've only tried a few, but I think the same for Krieghoff. I don't know about Kolar, etc. The important thing is to try them out. If you are buying used, you can't go by what is stamped on the barrel. If the barrel(s) have been modified, you have to swing and shoot it. For example, my 35" barrel weighs 1.682kg. Yesterday I shot a 34" barrel marked exactly the same, but had been worked on by Wilkinson. The metal he removed made the barrel lighter and much faster, where with an unmodified 34" it is hard to tell a difference.

I don't disagree with Pat, but I'm not as good a shot, and I have a hard time compensating with big adjustments. I have an adjustable rib gun, but ordered a custom, fixed stock. I adjust POI on the unsingle to what I want on the 22, then use it for both singles and handicap. That way only a small adjustment in aiming point (vertical) is needed for 16 or 27, and it's close enough that if you forget when you switch events, you still hit the bird. The only thing you really have to worry about is the difference in lead. Once you've done that, set your O/U barrels up for the POI you want for doubles, and you are good to go.
 

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I am not good with homework, but I really enjoy shooting my Combo. It took but little to get it where I like it, and I do not adjust anything for different disciplines.

By all means, get a Combo. There is a reason folks buy them. They RULE, and are truly simple to set up.
 

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Matt,

Do you shoot the BT-99 well at both 16 yard singles and handicap without any adjustment?

If the answer is yes, just get an O/U with an adjustable comb for doubles. If you can shoot the gun before buying and it fits you, you don't need an adjustable comb. Having 2 guns that fit you well is an advantage in the event that the BT-99 breaks.

Now if you don't want to lug around 2 guns, then sell the BT-99 and get a good combo. To me this is the only reason to get a combo.

Jason
 
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