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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I just purchased a new keg of Clays from Scheels this past weekend. I am guessing it is of a newer batch. We went and played around this evening with a Garmin. I was really surprised at the speed of the shells.
Load was as follows:
Multi Fired Rem Gun Clubs (From 2004)
Fio Primer 616
18.7 gr Clays powder
TGT12 Wad - Claybuster Clone
Powder and shot was weighed when I started and again when the bottle was about half empty.
Half empty, powder weighed about 18.4 gr

This load with a Win Primer should be 1235 fps at 9200 PSI

Per Garmin - Max Speed was 1403, Average was 1352, Low was 1313.

I would not think the Fio 616 primer would cause such a spike.

I also loaded several similar loads with a Fed Top Gun and plastic base. Using 19.1 gr.
I will check the speed next time I get out with the Garmin.

Is anyone seeing this kind of change in speed while using the Newer Clays powder?

Is the Garmin accurate?

IMG_20200316_205928647.jpg
 

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I am loading about 1 grain less with the newer clays made in Canada compared to the Clays made in Australia. My load for 1.125 oz in WinAA or Gun club hull using Cheddite primers and CB3118-12 wads is 16.6 g for ~1150 fps, whereas I used to load 17.6 for the same velocity.
 

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To the best of my knowledge Newer Clays has been newer Canadian Clays since I began reloading shotshells late 2015. I've never seen any older Aussie Clays. Early loading mentors warned me about the difference back then, now almost 5 years ago. Hodgdon's data has never been updated so best work with reduced loads 17.1 to 17.5 I assume your loading 1oz w/tgt 12 wad ? See how that chronos on the Garmin.
 

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A 90 fps low to high difference in speed seems a bit much, a sample of three notwithstanding.
You might want to consider testing the accuracy of the Garmin by shooting factory ammunition and comparing the results with the speed published on the box.
Double your fun by shooting through a Prochrono while the Garmin is running.
 

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A 90 fps low to high difference in speed seems a bit much, a sample of three notwithstanding.
You might want to consider testing the accuracy of the Garmin by shooting factory ammunition and comparing the results with the speed published on the box.
Double your fun by shooting through a Prochrono while the Garmin is running.
And then if you really want to know the real statistics, send 5 to Precision Reloading.
Then you will know for sure,
MG
 

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A 90 fps low to high difference in speed seems a bit much, a sample of three notwithstanding.
You might want to consider testing the accuracy of the Garmin by shooting factory ammunition and comparing the results with the speed published on the box.
Double your fun by shooting through a Prochrono while the Garmin is running.
I would not count on the factory shells going the speed printed on the box.
 

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To the best of my knowledge Newer Clays has been newer Canadian Clays since I began reloading shotshells late 2015. I've never seen any older Aussie Clays. Early loading mentors warned me about the difference back then, now almost 5 years ago. Hodgdon's data has never been updated so best work with reduced loads 17.1 to 17.5 I assume your loading 1oz w/tgt 12 wad ? See how that chronos on the Garmin.
Kinda reminds me of the never ending questions about the "new" Winchester AAHS hulls. The "new" hull has been out around 15 years.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I just finished an eight pound keg of the original Clays. It was from an estate sale. The keg was at least ten years old, probably closer to fifteen years old.
Similar thing happened around 2000 to 2005. 700x was redone, or at least the books were re-done. Today's loads take about .5 to a full grain less than the late nineties data version did.
Clays is a newer powder, particularly when compared to Red Dot and 700X. I would bet there are several people out there with some of the older Australian made Clays. If my recent data is correct, the new Canadian stuff over performs ehh. Time to pull a box of each powder type and find a chrono or send them off.
 

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And then if you really want to know the real statistics, send 5 to Precision Reloading.
Then you will know for sure,
MG
Some years ago I called Hodgdon's on these recipes discrepancies it was acknowledged but they didn't have much more to say other than graphite was being added to mitigate consistency issues. With Clays I've seen batch color variations (accredited to the added graphite)
Another veteran reloader I know well had a similar conversation with Hodgdons & was told that work was being done on clays batch consistency & new data would be forthcoming. They said that if the current recipes were updated that by the time they got Clays reformulated there would then be three versions of load data out there. In essence they were holding off publishing any revisions until then. That was a few years ago & as far as I know there has been no new settled formulation.
I stopped loading Clays & still have half a keg on the shelf. I've moved on to International which I feel is a more consistent powder. However that said their online recipes for International produce speeds far greater than the speeds published online.
1 1/8 - W Jammer Wad - Win 209 primer are listed International 20.1 grns @ 1145 & 22.1 @ 1200. Yeah Right believe me both those loads will get your attention.
mg1polo has given the best advice to send loads out to precision for accurate evaluation.
 

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I thought my Garmin might have exaggerated the speed of factory Remington Gun acluns. Max speed reported for 1 1/8 oz 1200 FPS shells was 1301 FPS with an average of 1280 FPS.

(Edited to Remington Gun Clubs from Federal Top Guns because I looked at the wrong data from the Garmin.)
 

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I briefly owned one of these & fps recording seemed good compared to my chrono.
I know there are important updates that must be installed before use.
Has this been done?
 
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