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Is it better to be in a category or just class?
I could be considered sub-vet.
thanx
mike
 

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not a simple answer Mike. At a big shoot - in the championship handicap event there are usually multiple place trophies - 5 and more places. In category, there are 2 at the most. the rules say that if you are competitive in your category you must shoot for category trophy. So you have a better chance of winning a trophy if you are in the undeclared or open category. Some years ago, at the Grand, I shot a 98 in one of the handicap events. 99 was the high score that day and there were multiple 99s in and multiple 98s as well. I had a dinner date with one of my daughters that evening and could not stay for the shootoffs. The next morning, I found that I had forfeited my way down to 6th place - had I declared sub vet, I would have forfeited my way out of a GA Trophy.

If you are AA or better in Singles or doubles, it won't matter much. You are going to have to shoot a very good score in either one. If you are not a high average singles,doubles shooter, it still will not matter as your score will probably not be competitive in your category and you will automatically bump back to class.

At small shoots, category declaration can winnow the field down and you will be competing against fewer shooters. Again, at big shoots and in handicap where there are multiple place trophies to win, there will still only be 2 category trophies, so you will have more trophy chances in the undeclared or open category
 

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Well it's really a crap shoot. A few years ago ( actually several now) the ATA changed the "fall back rules." Now the ATA considers "category" more prestigious than class or yardage group or even runner up. ( probably because if the All American point thing). You don't have to DECLARE a category but, if you DO and you shoot high score ( or tie for high score in category , you cannot fall back into class or yd. group. This is true even if you lose a shoot off for category. You might have a higher score than the person taking class but they still get the trophy if you broke or tied high score in category. Note: ---This does not apply in shoots that do not give All American points. At those shoots the mgt. may impose their own fall back rules. It's really up to you if you ant to declare category but remember you can not Change your mind after you sign up.
 

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I think a win in class trumps a win in a category. I think if you accept a win in a category rather than putting it on the line to shoot off a tie in class is not going for it!!!
John
 

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At shoots with all american points you must take category if you declare such (cannot fall back to class).
I have opted not for category in shoots with all american points since I don't shoot enough of those shoots to ever qualify.
By doing this I don't take all american points from some one trying for the all american team if I shoot really well.
My choice, every one has to decide for himself.

Maddad
 

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Agree on Gary's Advice , I might add if you are a A,B,C,D shooter you will have little chance off winning category ( you will be in the same class as AAA ,AA shooters )
If you shoot above average score in Class you have a better chance of winning . this pertains to Big shoots
 

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At the Spring Grand I won my Category and it was a 3 way tie for class. I got the category trophy and did not shoot off in class. The next day, my score of 99 was a three way tie for class B and that same score was a 16 way tie for category. After the carry over was done, I would have won my class but I was again shooting off for category. I was the only class B shooter in the category, the rest were A, AA, AAA. I just could not hold off the better shooters. So bottom line, Gary is correct. It can go both ways. Make a choice and live with it and enjoy the shoot.
 

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I wish ALL categories were abolished. It would be better to classify shooters by their average and known ability. Watching female and sub-juniors breaking scores of 100 & 200 at the largest shoots shows these factors don’t warrant a special category for either. The category system sucks and has turned getting a trophy into a crap shoot like playing BINGO.

The way it is now, your shooting against AAA and AA shooters in any category at the large shoots. Allowing shooters to fall back until they get a trophy is only watering down our sport. It just gives advantages to higher classified shooters. The only exception I agree with is for the wheel chair shooters who have a physical impairment.
 

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“Sec X. D. 5. Any special category shooter whose score does not qualify for a trophy in his/her category, may compete for place, class or yardage group trophies.”

So how does this rule above apply if you lose the category shoot off? The way I read it is that you would fall back to class / yardage. Is that wrong?

Also, competing for category doesn’t exempt you from competing for a Champion. If you’d rather have 4th runner up champion vs category champion, then that’s something to take into consideration I guess. Otherwise I don’t see the drawback of declaring category. JMO.
 

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Just make sure when you sign up, you have been registered in the right category. (Shooters responsibility)
I didn't realize it but my registration receipt had me as a SV. Someone pointed this out to me on the posted score board that I was incorrectly registered Senior Vet. Even though most felt the “error” should have been changed, shoot mgmt refused to change to proper category since I had shot one sub event. Lesson learned.
With all due respect to my elder shooters, I dont look SV most days!
 

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The old way was better.

Why when you declare does it have to apply to all three events? Why couldn't I declare category for only one event?

Don
 

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Agree with Perrazi_MX8.
I think shooters should shoot against other shooters, regardless of age, gender or health conditions (chair) using their earned yardage or average.
All shooters in the same class or same yardage group compete against each other.
 

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I think a win in class trumps a win in a category. I think if you accept a win in a category rather than putting it on the line to shoot off a tie in class is not going for it!!!
John
John,

I think the Category trumps the Class win; or at least it did for me a few years ago at our state shoot. I hadn't been a Sub-Vet very long, and "usually" just declared Open, but I had recently moved up to B-class in Doubles, and when signing up for our Texas State Trapshoot, I went ahead and declared Sub-Vet. I had an out-of-body score for me in the State Doubles event; had a 98, and after checking the scores, I "thought" I had won the B-class State title, til I saw the shoot-off list. I saw a 97 was B-state Champ, and 96's were shooting off for RU. I was marked as Sub-Vet Champ. Of course, I found out that this was the high Sub-Vet score for the whole event, and according to people, it carried more prestige, because of the All-American points, but I also knew I would never accumulate enough of those the be an All American, and it happened that the B-class winners won 2 trophies,and the Sub-Vet won a belt buckle; albeit a really nice belt buckle.

Just one instance that happened to me, but I don't have the "history" that others do,
Mike* (MH*)
 

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Well Mike, buckles are better than trinkets, so I think you came out ahead.
 

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Can't hold your pants up with a trophy. Besides you are showing others your win over as a rule better shooters than would be B class. Take pride in your accomplishment.

Congratulations.

Don
 
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