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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Go to page 46 of the current issue of Trap & Field and read the artical written by the Ontario delegate. This should explain how many shooters feel about the move. Like it or not it is the shooters feeling's that determine the out come of this problem we now have in our chosen sport.

I for one like the infastructure at the Sparta complex. We have a very nice place to stay and it is always there for our group. About 15 min. drive through Sparta to the club, so no extra time or miles to eat or shop. Most do not have this opportunity. We have lakes to fish in,(no out of state licence required) the club covers 13000 acres. so we have a lot of room to roam and enjoy the wild life in the area.

One other complaint I see more and more is the satalite grands, they take up most of the summer months up north and the mid-west. This leaves very little time for the smaller clubs to get enough shooters to be profitable. This is not good for the sport, no small clubs, no new shooters. This means no new ATA competitors and a large reason we have lost many shooters. Roger Coveleskie
 

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Roger, would have never read the report without your comment.
I have been to Sparta and agree with most of what was said.
I'm sure in time there will be adequate housing/dining/activities for shooters that do not have campers/motor homes
but that is along way off.
Bottom line as a shooting facility only, it would be hard to beat!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I hope when many of the posters read the article they will stop calling many people haters of Sparta. They are only expressing their feelings of the location. Or will they turn on our Canadian friends also. Roger C.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
trapshooteraa27aa, (yawnsss)

You and many others have been asleep at the wheel for a long time. Maybe some day you will wake up and see how far this sport has fallen, but by then it may be to late to fix the harm that has been done to it. You are a part of the I'll just stick my head in the sand crowd, and maybe the problems will go away. That is a little like trying to pick up a tird by the clean end. It does not work. Did you read the artical? If you did , did you comprehend what the author wrote? If your answer is yes to both of my questions, do you see the problem that the sport has now? Roger C.
 

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Roger I agree with a lot of what you said. Also I think the satalite grands have gotten way out of hand. It seems there a "this or that" grand every time you turn around! In the old days All Americans were picked on their ability. Now these satalite grands have become "talent shows" for All American points. There is ONLY ONE "Grand" and I wish the ATA would focus on it and the State and Zone shoots more! I also agree that the LIFES BLOOD of the sport are the smaller clubs. I think the ATA seems to be forgetting that!
 

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Roger I agree with a lot of what you said. Also I think the satalite grands have gotten way out of hand. It seems there a "this or that" grand every time you turn around! In the old days All Americans were picked on their ability. Now these satalite grands have become "talent shows" for All American points. There is ONLY ONE "Grand" and I wish the ATA would focus on it and the State and Zone shoots more! I also agree that the LIFES BLOOD of the sport are the smaller clubs. I think the ATA seems to be forgetting that!
In Florida the Dixie Grand & The Souther Grand, really impact a lot of the smaller clubs. If smaller clubs can't make enough $ during the winter snow-bird season, they have a real problem making it thru the summer when shooting drops off. I believe the at least the Dixie Grand should be eliminated . This gives some of the other clubs a chance at a piece of the pie & not the crumbs. There is more to Florida than the Silver $

Phil Berkowitz
 

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Nice post Roger. I hear what Paul Shaw is saying and have always had respect for him. He is a great ambassador of the sport either side of the border. You are correct that no facility matches Sparta for trap. Travel is and always will be an issue whether it was Vandalia or Sparta. It was two days to Vandalia, now three to Sparta for me.

The bigger issue you hit dead center is what the mini-grands have done to the local clubs. The one upside I have seen locally and the west has far outshined us on this, is the increase in junior shooting. Some of these kids will come back to the sport down the road. You and I will never see the days of old, the sport has changed and there will only be memories for most of us.
 

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I may never make it to The Grand but had the privilege of shooting at the '83 Spring Grand in Phoenix with 1000 other shooters. Pretty big thrill for this Alberta boy and as close as I may ever get to the big time...and that's OK.
 

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The Grand has lost its luster mainly due to the Mini Grand's who have psychologically for many shooters severed as an easy access regional replacement for the Grand American, when in fact there is only one Grand American just as there's only one Indy 500, Skeet nationals, Olympics.

The ATA has supported Mini Grand's and there expansion across the country because they're good income producers for both the ATA and host clubs. While these regional shoots look good on the ATA's ledger, they have, as pointed out caused harm to the smaller clubs buy drawing away shooters to what appears something more prestigious than shooting in their backyard while diminishing the Grand further.

The ATA was created on the pyramid principal with lower ranked shooters making up the foundation of the pyramid allowing the pyramid to reach it's pinnacle of AAA27AAA. Without a wide broad foundation of new and lower ranked shooters there would be no foundation no building blocks to the next level, no AAA27AAA or Grand or anything. Not only is the ATA membership based on the pyramid concept but so are the clubs, they like ATA membership are the foundation bringing in new shooters, keeping old one's and feeding both into larger shoots and ultimately onto the Grand American. The beauty of a pyramid is you can remove a certain amount of foundation building blocks with causing a collapse of the structure as one bridges above the other, but there comes a time when to many blocks are removed and the structure starts to fail and we're seeing this now with loss of feeder clubs caused by over exposure of larger of so called Grand's taking income out of the pockets of those who need it most. I guess you can thank Harold's for creating them. The pyramid was already made up of local, State and zone shoots and this system served the organization well without new additions.

So What's it's All About Alfie???

Surfer
 

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Could someone who has a copy of the "Magazine of Mugshots," please post the article?

Thanks :)
 

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Magazine of Mugshots? Damn!! I see where you get your screen name from. LOL
 

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I hope when many of the posters read the article they will stop calling many people haters of Sparta. They are only expressing their feelings of the location. Or will they turn on our Canadian friends also. Roger C.
Roger, It's not so much the message it's the constant preaching of it. It had gotten to the point that no one could post anything without a few certain posters piping in on who's or what is at fault over and over again. I'm sure you have noticed it was here and still read it on the dark side.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
trapshooteraa27aa,

Same DA answers from same DA yawners. You are not required to read all posts. That is you
option.

likestoshoot,

How else can the message be circulated? If members do not get involved our sport is doomed to a lack of honest effort to correct the many mistakes made by management. Roger C.
 
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