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Sleep...What’s That?
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I saw something on a shoot during Memorial Day that I had not seen before...of course I am still fairly new to this sport. This was at a registered shoot at a small club...maybe 50 shooters tops.

The event was singles. A shooter on Post 3 chipped a target and the scorer did not call a loss...I even seen the chip from behind the field where I was watching. Shooters on post 4 and 5 shoot and then the shooter on post 1 turned to the scorer and wanted to protest the chipped target shot by post 3. He was adamant about the target not being dead and argued with the scorer about it for a couple full minutes till the scorer offered to remove herself right then and get somebody else. Others verified they saw the chip as well, but this guy was pissed! Myself and others were just in awe about how loud this guy got over a small plaque if he managed to win. He finally turned and continued the round.

Is this common?
 

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Yes I've seen this many times, but it's happened to me only once. The scorer couldn't tell if I broke the target or not so she called it dead and the lady shooting next to me turned to the scorer and just stared at her. When the scorer asked her what she wanted she said "aren't you going to say anything?" The scorer asked why and she said "that was a lost bird"

I didn't protest bc I couldn't tell either but I really didn't appreciate her input.
 

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TinyL, no, it's not a common everyday occurrence at all. Once in a while a target piece will be questioned, usually not by the shooter breaking the piece but another may question a scorekeeper. I trust young eyes that know what they are looking for over older eyes most any day. Angle of a look is mighty important too!!

Then there's the type "A" personalities that think they have super human eyesight and loves to create havoc as you saw. Guess what the "A" stands for?

HAP
 

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Sleep...What’s That?
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Discussion Starter #5
TinyL, no, it's not a common everyday occurrence at all. Once in a while a target piece will be questioned, usually not by the shooter breaking the piece but another may question a scorekeeper. I trust young eyes that know what they are looking for over older eyes most any day. Angle of a look is mighty important too!!

Then there's the type "A" personalities that think they have super human eyesight and loves to create havoc as you saw. Guess what the "A" stands for?

HAP
I usually trust what is called by scorer or another shooter myself as my eyesight is not what it used to be...but I had just put some freshly updated prescription lenses in my shooting glasses and I was seeing pretty well that day. But as you say, I trust the young ones more...I remember I used to be able to see far better than I can now.
 

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But what if a scorer does call a loss dead. Does the shooter deserve what he doesn't break? Hell no. I have seen scorers call wads as bird pieces. With scorers we have today you can bet your butt I will question calls, I even will change mine and I have. Example last weekend, zone shoot, last house, shooter misses straight away, I question a call, did not argue, next post same shooter misses another one, I question the call. I even asked the shooter who wouldn't answer, the person supervising the scorer didn't see anything but wouldn't correct the scorer. The shooter in question had 25 scored for the house and he and his two friends on the squad know the real deal.

I have heard shooters come off of a field laughing about the freebies they got, sounds like some of you belong in that group. Of course some of you need all the help that you can get.

You should only get what you deserve and Christmas only comes once a year.

If you happen to be on my squad and you don't like it, leave.

Don
 

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My squad will assist the scorer if necessary.
There are times, especially on the handicap, that the scorer calls a bird dead that we know the shooter missed.
We will tell him/her and usually the shooter will also, that it was a lost bird.
It does not happen as much on the singles and doubles.
We are all long yardage shooters so the distance makes a difference for the scorer.
If we did not break it we do not want credit for it, that simple.
 

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Had this happen at a league shoot where 1 call made a 3 point swing in team scores in the 4th week scores of a nine week winter league. The ensuing arguments and rule bending lasted for weeks and ended up with one vehicle keyed and many people still not speaking or shooting at other league clubs months later. And all this for team name on a plaque. Was no fun to watch or listen to.
 

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But what if a scorer does call a loss dead. Does the shooter deserve what he doesn't break? Hell no. I have seen scorers call wads as bird pieces. With scorers we have today you can bet your butt I will question calls, I even will change mine and I have. Example last weekend, zone shoot, last house, shooter misses straight away, I question a call, did not argue, next post same shooter misses another one, I question the call. I even asked the shooter who wouldn't answer, the person supervising the scorer didn't see anything but wouldn't correct the scorer. The shooter in question had 25 scored for the house and he and his two friends on the squad know the real deal.

I have heard shooters come off of a field laughing about the freebies they got, sounds like some of you belong in that group. Of course some of you need all the help that you can get.

You should only get what you deserve and Christmas only comes once a year.

If you happen to be on my squad and you don't like it, leave.

Don
Don,

I've been on squads, more than once, with my friends when the argument breaks out because one of us thought we missed and the other shooters and scorers have to convince the shooter he hit the target.

There is a current running argument from a shoot three months ago. The scorer called lost, we all agreed, but somehow the scorer marked dead. At the end of the round the shooter corrected it, and the scorer is still arguing he never called lost.
 

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I shot a 100 target program not long ago and we had to question the scorekeeper on all but one trap. It was the worst scorekeeping I've ever encountered.
If I've missed a target and it's called dead, I want it corrected. What I hate is when I think I missed and the squad says I got a piece...bugs me when I don't see it.
A few rounds back, I watched the shooter take the shot, totally appear to have missed the target, scorekeeper yelled "loss" and then the damn thing broke apart...never witnessed anything like it! It was confusing but really cool all at the same time.
 

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Only a shooter him/her self should call it lost BUT, in the end the Scorer has the final say. IF this happened a squad I was on I would said if the scorer say a piece then that is IT ! Any further crap and we get the shoot mgr. here NOW! Agreed the person trying this is a jerk although I would probably use another NOUN!
 

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I am fortunate that in the circle of shooters I normally shoot with, everyone tends to never call there own targets dead but will simply ask "are yo sure?" if the score keeper or other squad mates saw a piece the shooter did not see.
Everyone one on the field (shooters and scorer) have a different angle of view of the target. Often times light, and background differences, will make it difficult for someone to see small pieces from their perspective - but someone else might see it. So, IMO, proper etiquette would be for the actual shooter to not get involved in calling dead/loss of his/her own target and not call into question the call of another squad mate, or scorer, who had a different view angle/perspective of the shot target. So - based on description of the situation in the OP, I would conclude the guy was a prick and I would avoid shooting with him.
If things get too far out of whack, shoot management should be called ..............
 

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But what if a scorer does call a loss dead. Does the shooter deserve what he doesn't break? Hell no. I have seen scorers call wads as bird pieces. With scorers we have today you can bet your butt I will question calls, I even will change mine and I have. Example last weekend, zone shoot, last house, shooter misses straight away, I question a call, did not argue, next post same shooter misses another one, I question the call. I even asked the shooter who wouldn't answer, the person supervising the scorer didn't see anything but wouldn't correct the scorer. The shooter in question had 25 scored for the house and he and his two friends on the squad know the real deal.

I have heard shooters come off of a field laughing about the freebies they got, sounds like some of you belong in that group. Of course some of you need all the help that you can get.

You should only get what you deserve and Christmas only comes once a year.

If you happen to be on my squad and you don't like it, leave.
I have no problem with a shooter or squad trying to correct a scoring mistake when the ref makes a bad call, but it needs to be handled correctly. The behavior described by the OP is not acceptable, IMO.
 
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