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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am in the market for a good gun for Annie/ Buddy shoots. The load I am planning on shooting is 1 1/4 once #6 with 30g of longshot. I have found a few bt-99 that have been in my price range but I am not sure if it will hold up. I have been told that the model 12 will handle the abuse but I am having a hard time finding one in good shape for the money. Is it possible to find a good model 12 for around $1000.00 or should I go with the bt-99. Any input or advice would greatly be appreciated.
 

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Rich:

Ljutics take a beating, but I don't know that you need a special shotgun or a 1-1/4 oz load. I'm certainly no authority on Annies / Buddy Shoots, but this summer after meeting a couple of kooks who shoot ridiculous 3" shells with preposterous payloads, I got curious and went to a local club where these games are really popular and quizzed several of the top long game shooters. To my surprise, NONE of these winners were shooting payloads over 1-1/8 oz. They were, however,shooting #6 shot (or larger) and hefty velocities. One of them claimed to be using 1oz. @ 1400 FPS.

There was one guy shooting slower 1-3/8 and 1-1/2 oz. loads who made it into a 70 yard shoot-off. He lost to the fast 1-1/8 oz. guys, but it was entertaining to observe the time delay between the boom and the break. It seemed like a second and a half.

-Gary
 

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I Pot Shoot a occasionally there are many that shoot the BT99 they seem to hold up very well with very few problems. I shoot a BT100, BT99 and Model 12's they all work very well when I do my part.

My favorite is the BT100 with the BT99 next and Model 12 last. The Model 12's are great guns but they have problems after being used a lot for Pot Shooting.
 

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I have been a pot shooter for about 13 years. Here are my observations: Model 12's make excellent pot shooting guns in terms of performance but they are one of the two guns I see break or malfunction most often on the line - them and autos of any kind. I bought a relatively flat shooting BT-99 with the Invector choke system and I am very pleased with it.

I am one of those people who shoots fast loads of 1 1/8 oz. If you are on them they usually break clear out to about 100 yards. If you aren't on them 1 3/4 oz of shot isn't going to make any difference.

I have a great gun and excellent hand loads. My problem is between my ears.
 

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Pick what you can shoot. We have alot of guys use both. As far as the shells they are running beware you are shooting for money alot of guys won't tell you what they are actually shooting. Nobody in our area shoots really fast shells patterns really start blowing apart around 1300fps in my experience. Even if you buffer your loads. Plus can you take the recoil of hot shells. You maybe shooting a 100 rounds a night.
 

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Bt's are great guns, simple, strong and will handle anything you can stuff in the barrel time and again. They point well and have won many Annies, Buddies and other games. Model 12's point well and have great dynamics but they are prone to minor failures though many on this site will argue my observations. I would rather stand by a BT shooting big shells than model 12.

Model 12's were designed as field guns where the avarage hunter my shoot a couple of hundred shells a year, they weren't designed to crank hundreds of thousands rounds through them much less a daily diet of magnum field loads. That said, model 12's have held up very well over time, but many have been rebuilt by some who have no clue what it takes to bring one back into spec, most buyers who can't tell a good one from a bad one. Pretty wood and a good blue job doesn't guarantee a good solid gun. If you're buying a gun on looks, the model 12 wins every time.

My opinion.

Sufer
 

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Rich,

I shoot that very same load out of my m12 all the time. I like it over a bt any day.
As far as finding a nice one for 1k or less, its not that difficult, i have a entire safe full, most could be bought in the 700 to 1000 range.

John
 

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Just a thought,1 1/4 oz. of 6's= 279 pellets and 1 oz. of 7's =299 pellets.I can assure they break just fine at around a hundred yards with a lot less kick.
 

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In my opinion, either gun will hold up fine with heavy loads, my problem was always ME holding up to either a BT-99 or Model 12 with heavy loads!
 

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Well heres my 35 years worth of being around and shooting nothing but these types of shoots every sunday. Either gun will handle your load just fine the model twelve will out last you ( exception I have seen a few firing pins break nothing else carry a spare) the bt will get loose over time but can be rebuilt for a couple hundred. Keep your speed Round 1350 with 6's to keep your pattern anything faster or with smaller shot will start to blow your pattern. For a thousand you can buy a nice model 12 trap model. Regards Tom R
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks for all the input it was exactly what I was looking for. I think I am going to go look at both and see what fits me better. I am currently shooting a 101 diamond grade trap that has been around for a few days. I have been holding up to around 100 rounds a weekend through it and I don't see anything kicking or slapping me mutch harder. I would stick to shooting this gun but it has a lot sentimental value and I would be crushed if something would happen to it. After reading all your replies I think I am going to load up some 1 1/8 loads and give it a try this weekend. I am going to stick with the longshot powder just use 31 grains instead of the 30 I am using now. Win or loose its all about having fun and nothing puts a bigger smile on my face than to smoke a fourth shot and send a few guys walking.
 

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The model 12 or 31 rem were always great game guns and the load you propose is a great load but will hurt you in either gun and you will be flinching & bringing your head off the gun very soon. A BT99 is a little better in recoil but not much. If thats all you have to spend them go for the 99. If you can scrape up more $$ I suggest a 90T or Ljutic or even an auto like a 303, 390, 391 or 1100. Trust me on this, with that load your shooting will go down hill in a mod 12. I shoot games and have all my life and I have been there done that.
 

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Rich101 I would reduce your Longshot powder to 28-29 grs as I like my pressures less than 10,500psi. This data is on STS HULLS I am speaking of.

Using 1 1/8th oz #6s with 35.3 Longshot gives you 1530fps @10,000 psi w/windjammer wad, using a AA WAD you need to drop powder to 32.8 Longshot and that gives you 10,100psi @1475fps

I personally like 34.5 grs Longshot w/windjammer wad @9,500psi and 1500fps
I like my pressures less than 10,000psi

These loads are less pressure than a New AA Super Handicap, are easy on any gun and action and are KILLER LOADS IN ANNIES

Using a AA HULL I stay at 33.5 grs w/ Windjammer Wad @ 9,500 psi 1475 fps

The Windjammer Wad holds the pressures down

As My Handle DR.LONGSHOT tells the story of what I shoot.

You don't need 1 1/4 oz loads

Gary Bryant
Dr.longshot
 

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Over the last 50 or so years, I have used most brands of guns and most shell combinations for the annies & buddies. I like the older style BT 99 with a dead mule recoil reducer for dependability. After years of pounding,it loosened up a little. While at the Grand, Browning went through it and tighten it up, Cost $30. 1-1/8 of 6 is OK for the buddies but a load of 1 1/4 of #6 @ 1330 for the annies makes the best all around if you only shoot 1 load. On the 70 + yard shoot offs a slow load of 1 1/2 #6 @ 1150 will break birds. They are a little slower & your other shooters will tend to double gun you. I have also had good results with 1 3/8 of # 6 @ 1250-1300. The Kent 1 1/2 oz 4 1/4 dram factory load is the one to avoid. Few shooters can handle the recoil. I know,I tryed it. Most of our winners shoot 1-1/4 oz of #6 on Annies.
Clyde (still learning at age 78)
 

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3inch Mod 12s are heavier than the standard Mod 12s! The barel is almost twice as thick . plus . they have about 1/2 pound of lead n the stock, to help with recoil.

In addition, they are choked to pattern at longer range than Trap and Field Mod 12s.

Being an avid pot shooter, I have several 3 inchers with trap stocks.
 

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I have to agree with the Heavy Duck M-12. The gun will be going strong when you are just a memory to your grandkids. Find one with trap wood and start winning dollars. I did.
 

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You don't need 1 1/4 oz loads

Gary Bryant Dr.longshot

If you come out to the Northwest and shoot at Hood River, you will learn that 1 1/4 is not enough, yes I said not enough. They shoot 1/38 - 1/12 and break them at 100 yds. If you cannot do that, you lose
 

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Just look at the loading data using Windjammer wads and you will lower pressure
shown using Windjammer wads, I trust the loading data, they have the equipment to test loads.

Just look at the Basic Reloading data in the Hodgdon manual 3 Powder Reloading Manuals in one, Hodgdon, IMR and Winchester

My manual was printed in January 2010.

As far as long distance loads I have not been Out Shot, they've tried.


Gary Bryant
Dr.longshot
 
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