Bt-99 shoots too high
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Sell. For the person who will "try trap" there couldn't be anything worse. You really want something you can point right at the bird.
With that serial number, I'll take your word for the POI. But I've always wondered, how did they make them shoot so high? Is it a steeply-pitched rib (that people should be able to diagnose right away?)
HMB's advise is worthless. You don't neet two inches, you need 15 inches.
You know, everyone's dissatisfaction with these high-shooting guns make me suspicious. I mean they shoot high, sure, but not all that much higher than the sort of POI so many here claim to be shooting. My guess is that many who beat their chests and proclaim that their guns "shoot 80/20" are very mistaken.
We know that when they describe POI in percentages they have never have tested the gun. If they had, they would know it shot so many inches high at such-and-such a distance because they knew it makes a difference. The only way you would not know it made a difference is if you had never done it.
I think it goes this way in many cases.
1. Good shots shoot high-shooting trapguns.
2. I will be a good shot.
3. Therefore, my gun shoots 80/20. I don't dare say "100% high" because every knows I'm not that good a shot yet.
But sell the gun. Try and find an old, beat-up 682 or similar. An auto would be perfect but complicated for a novice and an 870 kicks too much unless you can load it down, in which case it might be best.
Neil
With that serial number, I'll take your word for the POI. But I've always wondered, how did they make them shoot so high? Is it a steeply-pitched rib (that people should be able to diagnose right away?)
HMB's advise is worthless. You don't neet two inches, you need 15 inches.
You know, everyone's dissatisfaction with these high-shooting guns make me suspicious. I mean they shoot high, sure, but not all that much higher than the sort of POI so many here claim to be shooting. My guess is that many who beat their chests and proclaim that their guns "shoot 80/20" are very mistaken.
We know that when they describe POI in percentages they have never have tested the gun. If they had, they would know it shot so many inches high at such-and-such a distance because they knew it makes a difference. The only way you would not know it made a difference is if you had never done it.
I think it goes this way in many cases.
1. Good shots shoot high-shooting trapguns.
2. I will be a good shot.
3. Therefore, my gun shoots 80/20. I don't dare say "100% high" because every knows I'm not that good a shot yet.
But sell the gun. Try and find an old, beat-up 682 or similar. An auto would be perfect but complicated for a novice and an 870 kicks too much unless you can load it down, in which case it might be best.
Neil
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"We know that when they describe POI in percentages they have never have tested the gun."
You and the mouse in your pocket don't know Jack Schitt, Neil.
You and the mouse in your pocket don't know Jack Schitt, Neil.
I think he forgot to take his medicine.
Trust me, you raise the front sight and you will lower the POI. You can even make a short little spacer to put under the new bead to get the right height. You can epoxy it to the existing rail and attach the new bead to it. HMB
Trust me, you raise the front sight and you will lower the POI. You can even make a short little spacer to put under the new bead to get the right height. You can epoxy it to the existing rail and attach the new bead to it. HMB
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Sell and buy my Ithaca Century. It even has beginners instructions on the barrel. Bulge.
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Ask a good shooter or some one who is respected at your club for knowing this stuff at your club to put it on paper with a figure 8 bead alignment. If he says it shoots a pattern high, then sell it.
You didn't say, Do you see a figure 8 bead alignment? It really doesn't mean anything, but new shooters like to see down the rib.
I'm not crazy about HMB's quick fix, but whatever.
You didn't say, Do you see a figure 8 bead alignment? It really doesn't mean anything, but new shooters like to see down the rib.
I'm not crazy about HMB's quick fix, but whatever.
Some guys put on a stick-on rib, with a reverse taper pitch (front to rear), with success. Many of the BT's were very high shooting, to the point of being ridiculous.
Add-a-rib, or Devault should be able to fix you up with something to give your BT a more comfortable sight picture. This will allow keeping the gun at a small expense, to evaluate if it's a keeper.
Good luck, GAP
Add-a-rib, or Devault should be able to fix you up with something to give your BT a more comfortable sight picture. This will allow keeping the gun at a small expense, to evaluate if it's a keeper.
Good luck, GAP
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Johnny, that's why I asked about the pitch of the rib on these infamous BT99's. If the high shooting is caused by an excessively-slanted-down rib, no amount of comb-lowering is going to do a bit of good.
Besides, Ray said the comb is all the way down already.
OK, I admit, I've never seen one of these RR guns but I have heard plenty about them. The explanation I was told, Johnny, is that people were complaining that BT's shot too flat. So Browning listened and cured that and the response was, if anything, more negative that it had been for the flat shooters. I think it lasted two serial-number series - RR and something else.
I've never seen (or don't remember) a serious test of the POI of these BT's. So I don't know where they shot. I hope someone will post a picture of one so we can try to see what was going on.
Johnny, there's been a lot written about them, first in the Shotgun-mag trade and then on line. Of this I'm sure. No one had ever explained how the high-shooting was accomplished. Did they bend the barrels up and solder them there? Did they raise the back of the rib? I'd ask if they just raised the comb but Ray has answered that, even when the comb is down it shoots way too high.
I hope some happy RR owner - or unhappy ex-RR owner - will fill in the gaps.
Neil
Besides, Ray said the comb is all the way down already.
OK, I admit, I've never seen one of these RR guns but I have heard plenty about them. The explanation I was told, Johnny, is that people were complaining that BT's shot too flat. So Browning listened and cured that and the response was, if anything, more negative that it had been for the flat shooters. I think it lasted two serial-number series - RR and something else.
I've never seen (or don't remember) a serious test of the POI of these BT's. So I don't know where they shot. I hope someone will post a picture of one so we can try to see what was going on.
Johnny, there's been a lot written about them, first in the Shotgun-mag trade and then on line. Of this I'm sure. No one had ever explained how the high-shooting was accomplished. Did they bend the barrels up and solder them there? Did they raise the back of the rib? I'd ask if they just raised the comb but Ray has answered that, even when the comb is down it shoots way too high.
I hope some happy RR owner - or unhappy ex-RR owner - will fill in the gaps.
Neil
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There was a feature article in a 1976 or 1977 American Shotgunner Magazine that described the then new BT-99 Competition Model. The article said it was designed to shoot 10" high probably because of the slope on the fairly high rib. These new guns definitely had the fatter Competition forend.
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neil,mine measures 5/32 @ the muzzle,15/32 @ the rear. w/the comb all the way down I see stacked beads and get 12" high @ 40,same as my primary gun
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But ten inches is _not_ high for all these 70/30, 80/20, 90/10 and so on shooter who post here, Johnny.
Of course the conventional mathematics of the percentage system - three inches equals 10 percent - is completely out to lunch and makes no sense to anyone who has ever seen a pattern. It's just nuts; there's no other way to put it.
Mike Campbell apparently disagrees, but the fact is almost no one ever tests the POI of their gun. Not seriously at least, not so they should have any confidence in their belief.
As someone from Metro Gun club may attest, I spend a lot of time at the pattern board with all my patterning, POI testing, throwing balls for Kyra. I can't think of anyone if 30 years who I thought did a passible job of determining POI unless I dragged then through it.
I find it embarrassing, the helplessness they exhibit, the need they have for someone to reassure them about they have just seen.
In the 70's I signed up for initiation into Transcendental Meditation, the cure-all of the day, call it proto-gluten-free. It was a lot cheaper then than now, I understand, but a lot of my associates were finding their bliss there, or so they told me. I presumed they were just following a script they thought they were expected to buy into but I did want to at least do a drive-by.
The high point was getting your own personal mantra, whispered to you since saying it out loud would strip it of all its power. This mystical syllable had been picked specifically for you and would be your ticket to - well, it turned out, a ticket to spend a lot more money and maybe being able to cash in big later.
Anyway this 70/30, 80/20 mumbo-jumbo fulfills the same role as my mantra. And is of great value because it is, basically, magic.
Here's a representative interchange:
Neil: OK, Ed, that's great. Now that we have things set up so we could reliably reproduce your shots, you have put four of six shots in the same place in relation to the cross you were shooting at and so we can estimate that your gun shoots about two inches high here at 13 yards and will continue to shoot maybe five inches high both at singles and handicap.
Ed: Is that 80/20?
Neil: I don't know Ed, I don't think of it that way. It's about a hand-span high. That's a popular place to have a trap-gun shoot and I'd say you just have nothing to worry about, POI-wise. Take the paper with you so you can look back it if you want to.
Ed: (Pleadingly) But how high is it? 70/30?
Neil: Ed! Listen! Watch my hands! It shoots about this here; it will shoot about this high out on the field.
Back at the club I hear Ed telling his league-team members. "Yeah, I tested the POI at the patten board and it shoots 80/20, just as I thought."
It's really something how a system that is so clearly full of errors has taken over the minds of trapshooters to the extent that they don't dare think straight.
Neil
Of course the conventional mathematics of the percentage system - three inches equals 10 percent - is completely out to lunch and makes no sense to anyone who has ever seen a pattern. It's just nuts; there's no other way to put it.
Mike Campbell apparently disagrees, but the fact is almost no one ever tests the POI of their gun. Not seriously at least, not so they should have any confidence in their belief.
As someone from Metro Gun club may attest, I spend a lot of time at the pattern board with all my patterning, POI testing, throwing balls for Kyra. I can't think of anyone if 30 years who I thought did a passible job of determining POI unless I dragged then through it.
I find it embarrassing, the helplessness they exhibit, the need they have for someone to reassure them about they have just seen.
In the 70's I signed up for initiation into Transcendental Meditation, the cure-all of the day, call it proto-gluten-free. It was a lot cheaper then than now, I understand, but a lot of my associates were finding their bliss there, or so they told me. I presumed they were just following a script they thought they were expected to buy into but I did want to at least do a drive-by.
The high point was getting your own personal mantra, whispered to you since saying it out loud would strip it of all its power. This mystical syllable had been picked specifically for you and would be your ticket to - well, it turned out, a ticket to spend a lot more money and maybe being able to cash in big later.
Anyway this 70/30, 80/20 mumbo-jumbo fulfills the same role as my mantra. And is of great value because it is, basically, magic.
Here's a representative interchange:
Neil: OK, Ed, that's great. Now that we have things set up so we could reliably reproduce your shots, you have put four of six shots in the same place in relation to the cross you were shooting at and so we can estimate that your gun shoots about two inches high here at 13 yards and will continue to shoot maybe five inches high both at singles and handicap.
Ed: Is that 80/20?
Neil: I don't know Ed, I don't think of it that way. It's about a hand-span high. That's a popular place to have a trap-gun shoot and I'd say you just have nothing to worry about, POI-wise. Take the paper with you so you can look back it if you want to.
Ed: (Pleadingly) But how high is it? 70/30?
Neil: Ed! Listen! Watch my hands! It shoots about this here; it will shoot about this high out on the field.
Back at the club I hear Ed telling his league-team members. "Yeah, I tested the POI at the patten board and it shoots 80/20, just as I thought."
It's really something how a system that is so clearly full of errors has taken over the minds of trapshooters to the extent that they don't dare think straight.
Neil
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I don't get it......
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