[amboy49]

Had yesterday off as it was President's Day - whatever that means. A friend and I were advised of a new source for reloading supplies that was in reasonable driving distance so we headed over there. After viewing a substantial inventory of powders, wads, and primers I noticed a gun sitting in the corner a room that also contained the shot inventory.

After striking up a conversation with the owner's son he asked if I'd seen his BT-99. I had noticed it because the rib was completely loose. What I did not see was the receiver. He brought it out and this is what he showed me.

The owner explained that he was borrowing shells from his father's vest as they were shooting. He stated the crime lab report indicated the shell was loaded with Bullseye powder. Most likely over 30 grains ! The story unfolded that another shooter/former business partner supposedly slipped the bogus shell in the father's pouch to intentionally do him bodily harm due to business disagreements.

Regardless of the intent, this apparently is what happens when the wrong powder is used. I'm not reloading wizard, but suffice to say I think Bullseye is a pistol powder that is normally loaded in 4-6 grains. The pressure must have been tremendous. Note the forearm is completetly gone along with part of the stock. The internal trigger mechanism is pretty much non-existent. The breech was ruptured and the barrel blown wide open.

The owner of the gun did sustain quite a bit of facial trauma but made a full recovery with the exception of a significant and permanent right ear hearing loss. (He is right handed) The alledged perpetrator boarded a plane the next day and returned to Italy, his homeland. Quite a story.

 

[7mag]

since this is a family forum. Wow what a jerk. Glad nobody was killed.

 

[CalvinMD]

Wow..could have been a lot worse and I cant believe that it wasn't blown into even smaller itty bitty pieces...says a lot about a BTs strength

 

[Grizzlyman]

30gr. of Bullseye??? Amazing picture.
I hope if the former business partner ever returns he will be locked up!

 

[kenf]

That is one tough receiver. Amazing how it held together. My thought is that not only was the pressure extremely high, there was no gradual ramp up, the powder burns so fast that the pressure immediately spiked- like running the wrong size black powder for a charge.

 

[Jerry944t]

Interesting.

Bullseye is a pistol powder but can be used in light shotgun loads. Clays has about the same burn rate. I use the same weight of Clays in my 45ACP (3.8 grains) as I do Bullseye.

 

[Leo]

I really hope it was not a willful attempt to hurt someone else.

About 15 years ago we had a stupid joker that would put shells in other peoples shell pouches. Some were loaded with black powder. Some were loaded with glitter, some were loaded with sand. Some were real hot face slamming loads, some were real soft, barely clearing the barrel. The guy would almost wet himself laughing everytime he did this. He was talked to several times. One week his "joke" hot shell broke a guys stock. I lost my temper when I caught him putting one in my shell pouch and got a little violent, bending him back over the hood of a car. We both got thrown out of the club, according to the rules. Everyone knew what was going on, I later got invited back, he didn't

 

[fast gun]

I think I would have to take a trip and find this guy. Im amazed the shooter is alive.

 

[Stl Flyn]

I'm amazed that the shooter still has sight in his eyes, even if he had glasses on.

If this is indeed evidence, of an ongoing criminal investigation, I wonder why it is in the owners possession?

 

[amboy49]

To continue with more details of the story:

The shotgun owner told me the police informed them they would open an investigation but it would cost the owner $2700 and they stated the first person they would investigate was the shooter's father since he had a $200,000 life insurance policy on his son. Keep in mind I'd never met this guy before -he was relating an unsolicted story about the shotgun.

The shooter, a young man ( appeared to be in his early 30's ) claimed he'd shot at Vandalia as a junior shooter and won some championships in past years. The father still shoots in central Indiana, primarily at Cloverdale and Terre Haute as I recall the son saying. The story had enough details to make it certainly sounded plausible. In fact, the son mentioned his father had helped the ex-business partner open a restaurant in my home town. I didn't know the restaurant owner, but I knew of the restaurant and the fact it closed suddenly and reopened under new ownership.

Re: the type of powder ( Bullseye ) again, that is what was stated by the gun owner. I don't know what 30 grains of Bullseye in a 12 ga. shell would do. I don't have any guns that are of so little value I would be willing to experiment.

I think I might have tried to find someone named "Guido" in Italy to pay the former business partner an anonymous visit.

Perhaps if I go back for more components I'll get to meet the father and see if he will verify the story.

 

[MDMike]

Good gosh. I can't believe that reciever held together....

 

[CalvinMD]

Jerry..I honestly think Bullseye is a noticeable bit faster than Clays...Clays and RedDot are basically the same burnrate and pressure curve...30gr of Bullseye in a shotgun shell might as well been 30gr of pure dynamite..shoot well my friend!!! : )
P.S. My absolute favorite plinking load powder in 38Spec is RedDot..using those old lead hollowbase full wadcutters in my model 4" Mod15 SW is the most fun you can have with your pants on and turning the slug around base first turns groundhogs inside out in my 6" K38 Target model..all using RedDot

 

[Jerry944t]

Calvin a quick look at Hodgdons burn rate chart shows Bullseye slower burning than Clays or Solo 100. Referencing other charts shows the same results.

 

[CalvinMD]

I know Jerry..In a bunch of tests that I will try to dig up again for you..Bullseye goes more volatiley ballistic in overcharge situations by almost 50%....the same overcharge of Clays or RedDot still doesnt react with as violent of a pressure spike level or speed of that pulse level...that said..that much of any powder in that range would have taken apart a armored car..the man is surely lucky to be alive and with his sight and digits

 

[BT-100dc]

Jerry: You are right about the Hodgdon as they indicate Bullseye is slower than Red Dot but I believe this is a misprint. Every other reloading manual that I have reflects Bullseye as being much faster than Red Dot. For example, the Hornady Handbook (1991 edition) lists Bullseye as #1 and Red Dot as #8. As a reloader I've used Bullseye and Red Dot for pistol reloading and would not use Bullseye for any shotshell reloading. A double charge of Hercules Bullseye in a .38 Special would probably damage the gun, in fact I would only charge one shell at a time and seat the bullet then charge the next. A double charge only represents 5 to 6 grains versus the 2.5 - 3.0 grains recommended for a wadcutter load in .38 Special. BT100dc

 

[hmb]

The police department charges $2700 to investgate a crime? HMB

 

[amboy49]

HMB - Pull Pull,

I'm as mystified as you re: the part of the story about the police charging for an investigation and the life insurance. However, I am quoting almost verbatim, from the conversation I had with the young man and his account of the episode. He related a number of details I didn't include re: the extent of his injuries, trip to the hospital, surgery, and on and on.

I guess the old saying is "to make it believeable you have to have enough details. " I have no reason to doubt his story but I didn't press him for details that seemed implausible.

The truth may lie somewhere in the middle, but I didn't pump him for info, he recounted the details without a lot of prompting. As I also mentioned, he indicated he was quite a trap shooter a number of years ago. I only know his last name. If you want to p.m. me I will provide the owner's last name. If he was that good he would certainly show up in the past ATA records.(?) He indicated his father was still shooting but I have no idea if he shoots registered targets or just games at the local clubs.

 

[Johnny]

Red Dot is faster and lots of guns have survived a double charge of RD. Bruce couldn't blow up his H&R with Bullseye. This whole story is suspect.

 

[Leo]

I do not think the speed of bullseye is as much of a problem as how compact it is. A bushing for a regular bulky flake powder like clays would throw a LOT of fine grain bullseye powder.

 

[CalvinMD]

This chart is few years old too but pretty definitive coming from SAAMI...I only copied the first 25..theres not a ton of speed difference, Bullseye is touch quicker for sure




266 Powders Ranked Fastest To Slowest

(fastest burn rate)

1 PCL 514 (PB Clermont)
2 R-1 (Norma)
3 AP-30N (ADI)
4 PK3 (Bofors)
5 P805 (Rottweil)
6 BA 10 (Vectan)
7 N310 (Vihtavuori)
8 Titewad (Hodgdon)
9 Nitro 100 (Accurate)
10 Bullseye (Alliant)
11 Pis-3 (Nobel)
12 Solo 1000 (Accurate)
13 P801 (Rottweil)
14 Clays (Hodgdon)
15 S121 (Somchem)
16 Red Diamond (Scot)
17 AS (Vectan)
18 Red Dot (Alliant)
19 PCL 509 (PB Clermont)
20 PK5 (Bofors)
21 e3 (Alliant)
22 NOB-78 (Nobel)
23 Solo 1000 (Scout)
24 MS200 (Somchem)
25 Promo (Alliant)