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Discussion Starter #1
I have only been shooting Trap for six months. Up until today I have been shooting a O/U field gun with 28" barrels with a modified choke, averaging 18/19 with a high of 23. Not too shabby for a newbie.

Today, I took my new Browning BT-99 80/20 with adjustable Monte Carlo stock out for the first time and did awful, hitting only 7 on the first round and only 11 on the second round. I had two spacers in the comb.

Question, the BT-99 80/20 Without the adjustable comb is advertised as 80/20. Does the non adjustable comb shoot 80/20 out of the box? The adjustable Monte Carlo stock with the adjustable comb is also advertised as 80/20. Does raising the comb raise the POI higher than 80/20? I understand that all faces are not equal, some thin, some not thin, different cheek bones, etc. But all being equal, why have the adjustable comb if the one without the adjustable comb shoots 80/20? Does raising the comb raise the POI above 80/20? Confused. Advise appreciated. Thanks.
 

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you should take both of your guns and shoot at a pattern board or something similar to determine the point of impact of both of them and how they differ.

this will help you determine where they shoot for you, this will then allow you to make adjustments for where you point and perhaps to the comb too.

it probably shoots higher than your field gun, but shooting to determine point of impact of both is the only way to know how different they shoot for you.
 

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It should shoot 80/20 only if the beads form a snowman when you mount the gun.(stacked beads).If you have space between middle and front bead,It will shoot higher.If the beads are lower than stacked,It will shoot lower.You may have to slow your move to target so you don't shoot over targets if you are used to flat shooting gun.

joe
 

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Remove both spacers.....put the comb back on the stock and shoot a round. Ideally
You would go to a pattern board and mounting the gun as on station ,fire one of
Your favorite loads at a 4" circle in the center. In trap we usually like to "float" the
Target above the rib/bead. How MUCH a person floats it (and still break it) is
where the 80/20 or 70/30 comes in.
Your have been shooting a hunting gun/stock....most likely 50/50 at best. You
Are on the right track with a real trap gun. Just keep adjusting the comb until you
"See the target/Shoot the target".
With the spacers removed my guess is your BT-99 will still shoot about 60/40.
That is 60% above the center of your 4" target and 40% below. You are on your way
To becoming a SERIOUS TRAPSHOOTER !
 

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Having owned one of these guns, I can tell you you are shooting over the targets. With both spacers removed this gun will still shoot 70/30 which should be good for you. Look at the target and shoot it. These are very good guns for the money.
 

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F.50, you are a mess. I don't mean that in a negative way, you just don't have anything to go on.

Since you are a hunter, I'm going to assume you have no idea whether your two O/U barrels are regulated properly and shoot to the same POI. I'll also assume that you have choke tubes in you hunting gun and you have no idea whether they all shoot to the same POI from the same barrel, as well as the other barrel.

If these assumptions are true, you have no rational basis for setting up the "new" gun to shoot the "same" as the old.
 

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Fanner you are getting some good advice, Im going to add a couple of things to help you understand a couple of things when looking at POI and going from one shotgun to another.
1. I will assume that your field gun has no adjustable comb ect. so at times with the combs being pretty low on a field guns there are times where you are getting a non-consistent face to comb relationship but as a whole a very flat POI which leads many shooters to not only --cover the target-- but to also pull thru the flight path of the target to compensate for the lower POI. If you use this technique with a higher shooting gun you will consistently shoot over there target.
2.Everyone's face is different on the comb so a specific POI by the spec of the shotgun maker is not a given. You must pattern the BT and also pattern your field gun for ref. Take notes and take pictures for ref. this will help greatly.
3.Depending on your technique as far as hold points ect. keep in mind using a lower hold point and a lot of gun speed with your field gun and then using the same hold point and technique with a game specific trap gun normally do not mix as the POI on the trap gun will be higher...just how much you have to determine by putting in the time on the pattern board.
4.Keep in mind that when setting up the comb on a shotgun--mounting the gun and then saying ok I need to add washers consider how you are mounting the gun and how your face is compressing on the comb. I see many shooters who are no putting their faces on the comb and looking over the muzzle like the would on the line and looking at their hold point on the traphouse. They are pointing the shotgun in a basic mount and thinking they need washers. If you can go to a trap that is not being used with your washers and comb tool and mount the gun with the comb all the way down and if you are not getting a good face to comb relationship and are moving your head up and down to get the proper look over the rib to the muzzle then ad one small washer at a time as it does not take much.
Find washers that go no more than a 1/8 " at a time to start with as earlier you did not state how thick the washers are that you used.
Hope this helps, George
 

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Hi Fanner50,

You wrote "Question, the BT-99 80/20 Without the adjustable comb is advertised as 80/20."

And this goes back to my question to you on the previous thread. It is not advertised as 80/20. It is named 80/20. With all the variables in manufacture and the myriad ways shooters of every conceivable construction look down their guns, there is no way a maker can predict where the gun will shoot for a particular unspecified customer.

You do not know where this gun shoots. Nor do you know where your old gun shoots. The only way to can find out either is to test it, Here's how:

http://www.claytargettesting.com/POI/Point_of_Impact_and_Pattern_Testing_at_13_Yards.pdf

OK, you won't go to all that trouble; I know that. Not at the start, anyway. But if you don't, you will never, ever, figure out what's going on. It may, after all, shoot well to the side and never be any good. Some guns are like that.

You need to shoot at paper. You need a gun rest and a way to sit down. You will need a box or two of premium (AA, STS, GM) light 7 1/2 shells. Then you will have to shoot the gun and see where it really shoots, which can be just about anywhere.

Put in a full choke and leave it in so you get the best information about where it shoots. I suggest you adjust the gun to shoot an inch or two high at 13 yards as a place to start since you have to start somewhere.

Then go shoot it. And see what happens and think about every shot. Every shot ask yourself where the barrel was pointed when it went off. Mostly, hopefully, it was pretty near the target. But it still will sometimes be a bit higher than you intended , or lower. Analyze what happened when the target broke. (Not where the pieces went, of course; that an illusion*. Just the "quality" of the break. Smoke/no smoke/just chipped is about all you can do.) Was it better when you were a little high over a box of shells or so? Then you might try adding a spacer and see what happens. Probably, not much difference in just a box, but maybe when you make the same small mistake your hit will be better or worse. You will have (tentatively) learned a bit about where you want this gun to shoot.

The same goes when you are under the target. Is the break better or worse? If it's better, lower the comb. If worse, raise it.

Lock the trap and move to a post where you can shoot straightaways.

1. Intentionally shoot right at the target. Several times. See what, on the average, happens.

2. Intentionally shoot well under the target. Several times. See what, on the average, happens.

3. Intentionally shoot well over the target. Several times, See what, on the average, happens.

Use most of a box of shells doing this. You want to be pretty sure of your conclusions and just a couple of shells will just be wasted time and money.

Make appropriate adjustment in the comb.

Asking people on TS.com where your gun shoots is hopeless. They do not know. There is no way they could know. Only you can find out.

Good luck,

Yours in Sport,

Neil

Oh, and quit talking about percent high. When you finally come around and do it right, you will be able to say "Set up this way, it shoot an inch (or 2 or 5 inches) high at 13 yards." Percent high is for people who don't know where their guns shoot.

*Target Break Reading Article (final)
 

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All of the above is good advise and I would like to add one more thing. Close your eyes and mount your trap gun. Now open your eyes with your gun mounted and what do you see?? You should be looking directly down the middle of the rib and the beads should be in line (left to right). If you are not seeing this sight picture you need to get your gun fitted to you as otherwise you will not be looking where your gun is shooting. Oh and don't worry about stacked beads, depending on your physical make up they may or may not be stacked that really does not matter. You do not want to force your face into the stock to achieve the figure 8 thing. Five different people can mount the same gun and see five different sight pictures. You just need to get your gun fitted to you then you can work on finding the POI that works best for you.
As far as far as comb adjustment, your POI will move in the direction you move your comb.
Good luck and good shooting.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
F.50, you are a mess. I don't mean that in a negative way, you just don't have anything to go on.

Since you are a hunter, I'm going to assume you have no idea whether your two O/U barrels are regulated properly and shoot to the same POI. I'll also assume that you have choke tubes in you hunting gun and you have no idea whether they all shoot to the same POI from the same barrel, as well as the other barrel.

If these assumptions are true, you have no rational basis for setting up the "new" gun to shoot the "same" as the old.
zzt, No where did I say that I wanted to set up the new gun to shoot the same as the old gun. I don't. Never did I say that I am a hunter. I am not. Perhaps you are a mess for all of your assumptions. I am simply asking advise on setting up the new gun, and I am getting Lots of great advise on how to do that.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thank You everyone for all of the great advise. I am shooting trap informally, not registered matches, however that is something that I want to do in the near future. I do see that I need to pattern the gun. That obviously is the next step to Really knowing where the gun is shooting. Without having a patterning board I need to figure out just how to do that without destroying a target frame. One of our ranges has a backstop at about thirty-three yards so I will try to work out something there. I too think that I was shooting over the clays. Thank You everyone for taking the time to write the thoughtful and well written advise that you have given me. Please keep it coming. I am listening and learning.
 

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A lot of good advice already. My BT-99 80/20 shoot about 2-3" higher POI at 13 yards. You definitely need to go to pattern board (see 13 yard POI guide mentioned above). Pay attention to horizontal POI too. I have to adjust comb to the right about 1/8". You may have to adjust your shooting style to the new gun.
 

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Fanner50,,consider this:



That's PVC tubing and the frame is about 5 feet tall. The copper rod at the bottom is filled with shot and capped and keeps the paper (the brown tube) from unroling in a breeze.

Bring a small bag of shot or two to weight it down on the windward side.



The brown paper is from an office supply and costs about $3; the rest is similarly cheap. The pair (copper rod, paper) rest on a scrap of wood with a 1/3 inch ledge kept in place by the two small vertical connectors (Tees) in front of it.



The whole thing is mostly slip-fitted and can be taken down for transport (or left at the club for others). If the latter is your choice, glue all the joints, of course.

Neil
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Fanner50,,consider this:



That's PVC tubing and the frame is about 5 feet tall. The copper rod at the bottom is filled with shot and capped and keeps the paper (the brown tube) from unroling in a breeze.

Bring a small bag of shot or two to weight it down on the windward side.



The brown paper is from an office supply and costs about $3; the rest is similarly cheap. The pair (copper rod, paper) rest on a scrap of wood with a 1/3 inch ledge kept in place by the two small vertical connectors (Tees) in front of it.



The whole thing is mostly slip-fitted and can be taken down for transport (or left at the club for others). If the latter is your choice, glue all the joints, of course.

Neil
Thank You Neil !!! I have made two pvc target stands in the past that I use now on what we call our plinking range, and I can see your stand really working out. Thank You. Is it about three feet wide?
 

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When I first built it I used 36-inch rolls and the width of 37"+ worked fine (you have to stay away from the edges, of course.) But the handy office-store wrapping paper I use on the road now is only 30 inches wide so the verticals would be fine at maybe 31+ inches, inside to inside, with the same caution.,

Neil
 
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