What would you all say is the best cheap primer? I can get Nobels for around $20/thousand. Anyone used these? Where would I get load data for this primer? Or does it load similar to another more known namebrand primer?
I purchased 4 sleeves of Noble sports at the Grand last year. No more for me! Have had many that did not fire the first time but would fire on the second attempt. Cost me a few targets, also they are a lagre diamenter and once you start with them you cannot use other brands after them. Can't comment on Rio or Fiocchi but have been using Cheddite and have good performance from them. Just my thoughts, Jake
Forrest, I have just started loading with Nobel Sport. Loaded 4 flats and have only shot 200 at registered targets last fall. Not much of a test yet,but haven't had any problems with those. As mentioned above, a little larger and may have to stay with them. The load I shoot is a 1oz. load. Remington STS or Gun Clubs with 17gr. of red dot and a TGT 12 S wad. Both 71/2 and 8's. I asked about this load on this site and someone (maybe Mark) said it would be ok.Did a good job on 16 yd. targets. Hope this may be of some help. Steve
Nobels are great "IF" you can get them. Here in NW FL you can't find a supplier. The last club order from Gamaliel, came in with NO primers of "ANY" kind. Gamaliel seems to be out of lots of stuff lately(don't know what the problem is). The local gun dealer is asking 49.95 per thousand(no that's NOT a misprint) for winchesters. Needless to say I'm not buying any! If you order and have to pay shipping fees you can't get any deal on components. If I could find sa supplier I would go with the nobel sports.
My only concern with the nobels is that there is no load data on the internet for them. For this reason I may just pay the 29.95 for win primers, although I hate to do that. Does anyone know of any published data for the Nobels?
famill00 - If you read the beginning of just about any reloading manual by Hodgedon, you will see a disclaimer that states, the Nobel-Sport 209 primer is a direct replacement for the WW209 and can be substituted.
I've loaded about 15,000 of the Nobles so far (10,000) still in the shop and have never had a misfire to date. Within the last year I've seen several Winchesters that the center was to deep for the firing pin to get ar and that did not fire - also seen Win. factory ammo with the same problem that did not fire.
They all get there problems from time to time during production lot runs.
You can do a 1-for-1 replacement on the loading data for Win. primers - so said the Nobel rep at the Grand and repeated several times on this forum. That's what I've done and have basically ended up with the same 1 oz. load as mentioned above (17 gr PROMO vs. Red Dot & Remington 12S wad) as my light target mainstay load.
Yes, Nobels DO enlarge the primer whole and you can't go back especially if you shoot an auto - you'll end up with a blown out primer down in the trigger group.
Around here (so. IL) Win. primers at are club go for over $130/5000 and the Nobels $97 (bought my last 10,000 on the the last day of the Grand for $82/5000) - it's pretty simple math on which to buy especially if you've collected several thousand Gun Club hulls for nothing and don't care if you enlarge the wholes - I'll still have thousands of hulls left when the Nobels run out and/or something cheaper/more competitive comes along.
Do the Fiochhi`s come in a standard tray? In the past they came in a clear plastic blister pac and I didn`t care for that. Or does someone know a way around the blister pac difficulty. I liked their performance.
It seems the price of all components have increased about 30% in the last six months. AND NOW THE STOCK MARKET DROPS!! Pray for the republic.
I loaded about 20k Nobels around 6 or 7 years ago. They chronoed 30 to 50fps faster than an identical WW209 load. I had one bad shell in the 20k, but can't say it was the primer....it fired like a flintlock. The caps are harder than other primers and guns with strikers vs hammer/firing pins or guns with weak hammer springs don't seem to do well.
The Fiocchi 616 primers are now usually supplied in standard tray packaging. There is no blister packaging to deal with. Standard packs of 100, in boxes of ten packages, supplied in sleeves of five boxes for 5000 primers total per sleeve.
Some people have reported some off-sounding loads while using the Fiocchi primers in cold weather. You might want to be aware of that, if you live in a cold climate before purchasing large amounts of them.
I can relate to your observation on component costs. It continues to be a struggle. I have old powder for which I originally paid under $3.00 a pound. Pretty soon, you could probably move the decimal point one column to the right for the current costs of powder. I have shot that cost $2.25 a bag of 25 pounds. The decimal point has gone one notch to the right, and then some. Everything seems to have gone up in cost recently.
The only good thing about a downward correction in the stock market is that it makes it a little easier to buy into some of it.
Any primer under 85/5000 is the way to go. Have shot them all, made my rounds with quackshot with swapping loading data. He doesn't need me defending him but he means well and we need guys like him that keep things as they should be which is safe.
But with that said, I never had a problem using a cheap primer. They all went bang, they all did their job, and never had a bad primer using them. for the 50-80 dollar savings per 5000, I can not see how anyone would use premium primers. They are too expensive and with the cost of shot being high, it makes reloading worthless. Who cares if the Rio's are larger when they are 70 dollars cheaper than the Rems or Wins. I don't see me going back to them anytime soon.
If you have your doubts about how hot they are, use Fed 209A data as they are the hottest 209 out there.
Spend the money on good shot, save money on the rest. Scrounge STS hulls and shoot them until the crimps fall off. Shoot Promo or buy Nitro or SOlo for 240 for 25 lbs. Shoot Dusters and CB's. But... if you are going to keep one thing "as is" shoot magnum shot.
I would love to know the rational why people would pay 80 bucks more for primers then load reclaimed shot or drop their loads to 7/8oz. Save the money on the primers BECAUSE there is a significant savings to me made, then go out and shoot your regular 1oz or 1-1/8oz load.
The only reason I can fathom is either they don't have the cheap primers available or they don't know about them.
Interesting reading from Accurate Powder regarding primers:
· It is well known that different primers deliver different energy levels. The way each company manufacturers and formulates the chemical composition, and configures the hardware (metallic) parts of the primer, all plays a major role in how the primer will deliver the energy to the powder.
· Again, we must emphasize that it’s all about the particular combination, and whether a change in primer will show a difference in ballistics.
· Shotgun primers are very sensitive to firing pin energy. This is due to the proportionally large displacement/deformation that must take place when the primer’s cup is crushed.
· It is extremely difficult to pin the data down to a standard one load, where primer X will always deliver higher performances than Primer Z. AAC developed our loads using a standard typical primer. If all conditions are the same, the difference between primers will rarely be dangerous. It is obvious that if the load one is using, are already running at the maximum level with primer X, it would be unwise to merely change the primer and continue loading. This is also true for any change in component or procedure.
· Once any component or procedure is changed, the combination will react differently. The proper way to proceed is to reduce the load by about 0.5 grain to 0.7 grains, and then confirm the performance by measuring the velocity or sensing the recoil/flight time. The reloader can then adjust back to the same velocity/recoil level, by increasing or decreasing the charge mass, or by adjusting to a stiffer softer wad or decreasing or increasing the crimp.
Manufacturer Designation Comments
CCI-ATK CCI 209 Standard output.
CCI-ATK CCI 209 M Magnum primer for hard to ignite powders.
Note: All Accurate powders ignite very easily; does not need extra Energy.
CHEDDITE CHED 209 Standard output.
FEDERAL FED 209A Standard + output. However under certain conditions can produce slightly