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Discussion Starter #1
What is your opinion; do you think Beretta is on par with Perazzi?

Perazzi appears to be equal with Krieghoff
Browning appears to be equal with Remington & Winchester

Where is Beretta... at the Perazzi/Krieghoff level or at the Browning/Remington/Winchester level?
 

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IMHO, i'd say inbetween. Beretta would only be on the same level as a Perazzi if they were side by side on the same table.
 

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I would put Browning close to the same level as Beretta and much higher on the food chain than Remington or Winchester. I'm thinking about O/U type guns where there is nothing in a Remington even close to a Browning XT or a Beretta 68X. A Browning Gold semi-auto is very close to a Winchester SX2.
 

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Hitapair. Great line.

Perazzis are "venerable"

Berettas are "disposable"

K80s still have the european "snobbery"

Browning put Japan back in the "gun business"

Seitz set into motion the trend back to single purpose "SBTs"

Rems are only good to the 27.
 

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Yes and NO! Not a fair comparison. Bretta maks lowr priced and lower quality guns than Perazzi but they also make guns in th sam catagory and above in the case of a SO 9 Beretta it is above anything that Perazzi is currntly building.

So there you have it Yes and No.

Joe Goldberg
 

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Boxing the trigger is when you pull the first trigger but don't release it enough for the 2nd trigger to set.. Then you pull again and have nothing until you completely release the trigger.. I can't box a Perazzi trigger as the cross over is so short.. I've yet to do it.. Both Krieghoff and Kolar both went to extreme pains to get their triggers to work for me.. My right hand was crushed.. and I'm missing half the nerves in it.. That's the main reason I shoot Perazzi's.. The Flodman/Caprinus is better than the Krieghoff or Kolar..but once in a great while.. I manage to box the trigger.. All Good.. Mike
 

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Mike, where does this place the Browning Cynergy since it's so close in operation features to the ones you mentioned? Wasn't there talk of a lawsuit because of a patent infringement when Browning built the Cynergy?

"The Flodman/Caprinus is better than the Krieghoff or Kolar.."

Hap
 

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Hey Friend.. I looked over the Cynergy.. and while it tried to mimic the Flodman/Caprinus.. I don't like the reverse strikers. and see a problem down the road with them.. They took a dead simple design and over complicated it.. YET..the Cynergy is a excellent gun..with very good dynamics..it will never be in its farthest dream even remotely close to a Caprinus.. The Caprinus is made by Leica.. the camera people.. It's totally machined stainless steel and titanium.. The bunker model weighs 7 pounds 9 oz. Moves like a 6 pound gun.. and has the recoil of a 11 pound gun.. All with .722 bore barrels and either fixed or screw chokes. It's the only gun I did not put a PFS stock on.. and with 3 dram 1 1/8oz.. don't need it.. It has inline.. direct strikers.. VERY crisp/clean triggers.. all mechinical..and designed from the ground up for bunker shooting.. Ken Rucker put an adjustable comb on the one I shoot..30" screw choked model..with a thin vented recoil pad..
The quality of the Flodman/Caprinus is similar to the Krieghoff/Perazzi but there is no release trigger for it.. The trigger is far simplier than either.. comming closest to a 311 Savage but all machined steel.. hand fitted..
I have made the 2 parts that allow me a 2.5 pound trigger that does not double.. but still shoot the 3.5 pound as it closely matches my Perazzi..

The part I really have no answer for is the lack of recoil.. no weight.. no porting.. no tricks..and perceived recoil is nill..

I don't know why the guns are $20,000.. but if they dropped to say $10,000 to $12,000.. the'd be a hit in the Sporting Clays circle where a gun MUST move.. The gun kind of reminds me of the old K-32..I've had a long standing admiration for.. and the old Perazzi Comp1.. with the 30" 1.52KG barrel.. They moved with little imspiration.. not like many of the 9 plus pound guns they shoot in ATA today..

If you ever get down to New Orleans.. look me up..and I'll bring a few out for you to shoot.. You can be the judge..

It's NOT the gun you bring to Italy.. as its made elsewhere..BUT.. If I could have ONLY 1 shotgun to my name.. and money was no object.. just close your eyes..and it appears.. it would be the 32" titanium barreled..stainless receiver Flodman with a custom stock and Teague chokes.. That would easily take me to any finish line..

I would venture to say.. 99.5% of shooters in the world have never shot a gun with these dynamics.. If they did.. it would take some getting use to.. as everything else feels like a lead weight on a wooden stick.. and yes.. that also includes my Perazzi's..

Don't be surprised if a titanium barreled.. somewhat first cousin of a Perazzi shows up in the next 10 years.. I'll be in Italy 3 days from now..If Giacomo daughter was not in a motherly way..He'd be with me..

I hope this has answered your question.. If I go to the GRAND next year.. and you are going.. I'll bring one for you to shoot..AFTER you shoot your regular matches.. The timing is so different..I'd only let you play with it until your shooting was over..

As always.. All Good.. Mike
 

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A shotgun's nothing but a pipe to put a shotshell in one end and directs the shot downrange and a stick of wood to hang on to it. The rest's all in your head......

John C. Saubak
 

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Thanks Mike, I see why the lawsuit was dropped, if there ever was one in the first place.

I'm like the Old Cowboy, no piece of pipe and a couple chunks of wood rises to that level of cost for me either!! Hap
 

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Those Dubai Sheikh's seem to fancy their Beretta's ....I'm sure money is not a problem for them.......They even win with them....
 

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The only world wide competitor Perazzi ever considered is Beretta. Still is.

You'll see this in the Olympics. Perazzi & Beretta dominate the games, no matter it's a MX-8, DT10, SO5, or a 682, over 90% of the Olympic medalist are using these two brands.

IMO, the Beretta SO guns are one notch above the current production Perazzi. The 682 is a perfect example of modern CNC machined, cost effective product, the most popular Olympic shotgun in that price range.
 

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I,ve ownwd 5 Beretta's and 6 Perazzi's. To me, Beretta is every bit on the same level as Perazzi. The 680 series B. gun was built like a tank and I never had any problems with it. I have never owned a SO series gun, but would like to shoot one to compare. I know the 6 series guns and SO series guns do well in the Olympics as stated earlier. Perazzi makes a fine product, but a little high in price for the quality you receive. Roy
 

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The best all around shooter in the world, George Digweed, shoots a Perazzi MX2000S, but Perazzi pays a lot of his shooting bills.

Prior to his (Digweed) arrangement with Perazzi he shot a Beretta (682X I believe)....

A close second to Digweed is Scotty Robertson of Texas and he shoots Beretta 391's...

Its all relative IMO....

Perazzi rules in ATA Trap...

Beretta rules in Olympic competition...

Beretta and Perazzi both rule in the world of Clay target competition...

They both offer the best for all around affordability....

Just my humble opinion FWIW....

Regards

A second thought...ATA NSSA NSCA Olympic competitions, etc are always won by the individual doing the shooting not the gun...but it seems they are always shooting Beretta's or Perazzi's occasionally a Krieghoff....in the old days before modern machining and production methods it seems Remington and Winchester as in Rem 870 and Win M12 were the Top Guns....at least in USA Trap and Skeet.

Regards
 

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i box the trigger on my k-80 from time to time in skeet doubles never with the perazzi, i hope to own an sc3 soon for i need a p and k gun, pbb you always have some cool stuff to add, i believe FABBRI has already made a titanium bbl gun, a guy in DE shoots a titanium seitz o\u 32'' bbl what a gem, i believe the older 682 is the best value outhere at a good price, why hasnt beretta offered a high rib gun to cater to the ATA shooters like the k&p guns?
 

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PerazziigBore: I had a Krieghoff 32 years ago that DuPont installed an "over travel kit", as I recall, it cost me $150 back in the '70s.The gun went off, but the trigger travel was limited to the necessary amount only.
As I remember, it was a simple addition to the underside of the safety.
 

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Sean, Beretta 682 Gold E Unsingle combo appx $4500.00...new for Beretta, typical high adjustable rib but as an unsingle...no top single high rib yet...

The 682X from 1984 to 1994 then they changed to the 682 Gold and then to the Gold E....

682X's were made along with the ASE line, marketed as their competition models...The ASE and 682X ruled the Olympic games for years...

682X very under rated, under valued IMO....

regards
 
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