what is the opinions of the Beretta A400 Parallel Target guns, the one with the blue receiver?
Pro's and Con's.
Thanks,
Jackpot1
Pro's and Con's.
Thanks,
Jackpot1
jackpot1
Pros:
1. The rotary bolt head makes for a slightly faster action than the previous 300 series.
2. If equipped with the Kickoff system, it's a simple unit that's light and works very well.
3. It's probably the most reliable auto that is currently on the market.
Cons:
1. Smurf blue receiver looks hideous.
2. Really, really, really bad trigger that feels like it's dragging gravel through a yard of creep. Even with a trigger job, it's just awful.
3. If equipped with a Kickoff system, you are very limited to modifications such as adjustable comb if it's a Sporting or Field model.
1. The rotary bolt head makes for a slightly faster action than the previous 300 series.
2. If equipped with the Kickoff system, it's a simple unit that's light and works very well.
3. It's probably the most reliable auto that is currently on the market.
Cons:
1. Smurf blue receiver looks hideous.
2. Really, really, really bad trigger that feels like it's dragging gravel through a yard of creep. Even with a trigger job, it's just awful.
3. If equipped with a Kickoff system, you are very limited to modifications such as adjustable comb if it's a Sporting or Field model.
I have both the trap version with Kick-Off and the
sporting model without Kick-Off. I feel the Kick-Off
is junk. It might be of some benefit when shooting
hi-velocity field loads but does nothing with trap
loads. As far as the trigger pull is concerned, I
find it no better or worse than my 391. I don't
mind the blue receiver. It makes it stand out as a
competition gun. Very reliable. Beretta has a video
on UTube werein they state the gun will run 10,000
rounds without cleaning.
sporting model without Kick-Off. I feel the Kick-Off
is junk. It might be of some benefit when shooting
hi-velocity field loads but does nothing with trap
loads. As far as the trigger pull is concerned, I
find it no better or worse than my 391. I don't
mind the blue receiver. It makes it stand out as a
competition gun. Very reliable. Beretta has a video
on UTube werein they state the gun will run 10,000
rounds without cleaning.
I shoot a 391 Gold Parallel Target and a 391 Sporting Autos. I don't shoot trap with these but skeet, 5-stand and sporting. Beretta auto in my opinion are great target autos. Can't go wrong. I'm no trigger expert but I don't have anything wrong with mine. The experts on here will sway you any way you let them. I've never had lifter/carrier issues. I believe these issues are mostly self enflicted by not knowing how to load/cycle/extract shells with this shotgun.
I would own a 400 because of an addiction to shooting and believe they put out a great product but, can't bring myself to buying the blue reciever. I guess I don't like the attention it draws because if its color. I'm not that good of a shot let alone having a baby blue reciever to stand out.
I would own a 400 because of an addiction to shooting and believe they put out a great product but, can't bring myself to buying the blue reciever. I guess I don't like the attention it draws because if its color. I'm not that good of a shot let alone having a baby blue reciever to stand out.
The fit and finish on the Browning Maxus is very nice. It's a great looking gun, but really just another incarnation of the Gold, which just doesn't hold up to target use. You will see a lot of Beretta autos in the gun rack at any given registered shoot, but you will not see very many Brownings. There is a reason for that.
I have YET to read a truly bad gun review, on just about any gun for that matter.
JMHO!!
I have YET to read a truly bad gun review, on just about any gun for that matter.
JMHO!!
If you have a short lop try one before you buy it I made that mistake and had a new gun I couldnt shoot. You cant shorten the pull on one with a kick off on it. The only person happy was the person I sold it to for a big loss.
Tron wrote,
"I think it's hands down way worse. Check for yourself and tell us what you think."
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I haven't had the opportunity to try the A400 yet. The slop, creep and overtravel on my stock AL391 were pretty bad, but a precision trigger job by Cole's made a HUGE improvement.
FYI, I had them leave the pull weight at the stock value of ~4 lbs because I was unsure about the safety of a lighter trigger for hunting. I did have a couple misfires when hunting because of the shorter travel distance even though the weight was unchanged. The gun did not quite make it to my cheek before I fired resulting in lost birds. It's remarkable how all of the "mount, swing, fire" motions are wired together in your brain during hunting such that a small change in the trigger mechanics causes errors.
"I think it's hands down way worse. Check for yourself and tell us what you think."
---------------------------------------------------
I haven't had the opportunity to try the A400 yet. The slop, creep and overtravel on my stock AL391 were pretty bad, but a precision trigger job by Cole's made a HUGE improvement.
FYI, I had them leave the pull weight at the stock value of ~4 lbs because I was unsure about the safety of a lighter trigger for hunting. I did have a couple misfires when hunting because of the shorter travel distance even though the weight was unchanged. The gun did not quite make it to my cheek before I fired resulting in lost birds. It's remarkable how all of the "mount, swing, fire" motions are wired together in your brain during hunting such that a small change in the trigger mechanics causes errors.
I have well over 50K through one of my Browning Gold Sportings with no issues (other than one broken firing pin, which took 10 minutes to fix). Thousands more through a Gold 20 and backup guns, not to mention my dedicated duck gun. I know many other folks that shoot them at clays and in the field, and have had no issues as well. I think in the past you did not see them (other than Fowler winning the Nationals a couple of times with one), because Browning did not push them as hard as Beretta pushed the 390/391. And lest I get "fanboyed" I have a 390 and 2 391's in the safe that I don't shoot as they are not nearly as "soft" as the Gold. YMMV, but I would have no issue with a Maxus, since it is basically a restyled Gold, and all my Golds have been uber reliable in the marsh and at the range.
First off I have both and like both, however the claim in the earlier post about being able to fire 10000 rounds without a cleaning is absolutely a lie. The beretta will shoot all manufactors ammo but loves the sts's and aa's... It will shoot the federal top guns but will start seeing failure to cycle problems way before 10000 rounds... I have to completely break mine down after about five to seven hundred rounds and even run a 1/8 file and brush into the barrel gas ports. The federal's carbon build up will catch up to the gun like any other firearm. With that said when clean, the beretta will absolutely crush doubles targets has fast as u can pull the trigger.
I agree tadgarvin. Clean ammo is essential with an autoloader. But, they really will go 10,000 rounds with clean ammo. Trust me, I've done it and have seen it from my friends that use Beretta autos.
Federal's are nasty in an auto!
Federal's are nasty in an auto!
A400 Xcel Sporting 30" here - trigger's ok-good for me.
The only shells it got finicky on were with a few of those high base Rio target loads; eats everything else.
First time it didn't reliably cycle was during a round sporting clays in the rain AFTER it had been used for an NSCA shoot. It had some 2.5k rounds in it and I had not yet cleaned the gas port, much less a real cleaning (beyond wiping down the inside of the receiver and whatnot.) I was running Federal Walmart 4-pack 3 dram shells.
KO system is meh; took be a bit to get used to it; other systems are better but it does okay.
As for color: There are quite a few A400 smurfs in socal, although there are a number of Xcels that have been re-anodized to another color (like black, below) or electroless nickel plated.
Usually like my 302/303s more for sporting, but the A400 is always on as a backup. Some days though, the A400 does get the primary slot. It's my do-all backup gun, my loaner gun, my intro to new shooters gun, my inclement weather gun, etc...and is almost always with me in the car when I'm at the range.
The only shells it got finicky on were with a few of those high base Rio target loads; eats everything else.
First time it didn't reliably cycle was during a round sporting clays in the rain AFTER it had been used for an NSCA shoot. It had some 2.5k rounds in it and I had not yet cleaned the gas port, much less a real cleaning (beyond wiping down the inside of the receiver and whatnot.) I was running Federal Walmart 4-pack 3 dram shells.
KO system is meh; took be a bit to get used to it; other systems are better but it does okay.
As for color: There are quite a few A400 smurfs in socal, although there are a number of Xcels that have been re-anodized to another color (like black, below) or electroless nickel plated.
Usually like my 302/303s more for sporting, but the A400 is always on as a backup. Some days though, the A400 does get the primary slot. It's my do-all backup gun, my loaner gun, my intro to new shooters gun, my inclement weather gun, etc...and is almost always with me in the car when I'm at the range.
Attachments
I have the sporting without the KO system.
Tuesday I shot skeet and trap and Thursday was on the sporting clays course. Just cleaned it this AM.
As stated previously, you can't shorten the stock with the KO system. You would have to throw the KO system away and go after market.
Fit me right out of the box.
Forearm very thin. Works for me, but something to look at.
Barrel gets much hotter then the 1100.
Trigger a little sloppy.
It said thousands of rounds between cleanings. As a former 1100 shooter I just cannot stop myself and clean the gun every 300 or 400 rounds. Saying that, very little buildup (shooting a case and a half of Estates).
Very easy to clean and very few parts. Much easier then 1100. A wipe down and a few drops of oil. Don't think I spend more then 5 minutes cleaning. Cleaned two guns today, mine and the wife's 1100. Mine back in the case after five minutes. Hers still sitting on the bench, broke down, covered with Brake Free.
I've shot a number of brands of cheap shells and no problems.
A shooter did tell me if that it started to act up during a shoot to just put a drop or two of oil in the open receiver and cycle the bolt a few times. I haven't had that problem, but I don't go thousands of rounds between cleanings.
As for wobble trap. If your shooting two shells per target you will be hitting the person next to you with the hull. For single shots, an excellent shell catcher available. Has not failed me yet.
A friend just moved into Master class shooting the A400 sporting.
Tuesday I shot skeet and trap and Thursday was on the sporting clays course. Just cleaned it this AM.
As stated previously, you can't shorten the stock with the KO system. You would have to throw the KO system away and go after market.
Fit me right out of the box.
Forearm very thin. Works for me, but something to look at.
Barrel gets much hotter then the 1100.
Trigger a little sloppy.
It said thousands of rounds between cleanings. As a former 1100 shooter I just cannot stop myself and clean the gun every 300 or 400 rounds. Saying that, very little buildup (shooting a case and a half of Estates).
Very easy to clean and very few parts. Much easier then 1100. A wipe down and a few drops of oil. Don't think I spend more then 5 minutes cleaning. Cleaned two guns today, mine and the wife's 1100. Mine back in the case after five minutes. Hers still sitting on the bench, broke down, covered with Brake Free.
I've shot a number of brands of cheap shells and no problems.
A shooter did tell me if that it started to act up during a shoot to just put a drop or two of oil in the open receiver and cycle the bolt a few times. I haven't had that problem, but I don't go thousands of rounds between cleanings.
As for wobble trap. If your shooting two shells per target you will be hitting the person next to you with the hull. For single shots, an excellent shell catcher available. Has not failed me yet.
A friend just moved into Master class shooting the A400 sporting.
While I admit just trying one at the Grand may not be a true exercise to measure a gun but, I didn't think it was much if any better than my 391. I agree with Tron about the trigger. I believe the trigger on the 400 is not as good as the 391's trigger. To me it would be hard to justify the increased cost of the 400 over the 391 but to each his own.
I like my smurf gun. I have a kickoff and parallel comb. I took it to a gunsmith to have some more drop added to the stock/receiver washer. By cutting the hole and adding another shim I am right down the barrel and it is not too high with the parallel comb. I don't know how one would shoot it with parallel comb without some customization for additional drop. Cole did a trigger job and it is ok now. It is not a Perazzi trigger, but they cost as much as the A400. I added the Briley closer and fore-end weight. It is now a nice clays gun.
I have an new A400, 30" barrel with kickoff that I have customized, disassembled the trigger and polished all the parts and reassembled it works smooth now, installed a 3/4 " high rib, took 3/8" off the top of the stock and made and installled an adjustable parallel comb (not too much room to work with installing the comb hardware) cut finger grips into the left side of the grip, installed a palm swell on the right side, installed a pad adjuster and had to cut 3/4" off the stock then I had to redrill the stock to accomodate the Kickoff. I refinished the complete stock using 10 coats of Tru Oil. Had the gun ready to shoot a week after I purchased it, being retired give me plenty of time to work on my projects. The gun is mainly used for Sporting Clays.
I've shot them both at trap. I own the Sporting model & another guy I shoot with owns the Parallel model. We talked at one point of trading so we swapped guns for a couple rounds. Both models had the KO system which I like a lot. We decided not to trade because when we swapped they just didn't fit correctly for us. Not sure of his issues but with me, I needed the little extra drop on the Sporting for it to fit me correctly. Even with the slightly raised/ramped rib on the Parallel it didn't work for me.
With that being said, it's my go-to gun for any clays game (although I shoot mainly trap) with the exception of doubles (I just like my o/u better).
My suggestion is to try to shoot both before making the investment. Get the one that fits you best. And get the KO system. Recoil may not be an issue now but it may be later in your life due to health problems. Also, after you break your first 100 straight with it, good luck with trying to keep others from asking to fondle or shoot it! lol
With that being said, it's my go-to gun for any clays game (although I shoot mainly trap) with the exception of doubles (I just like my o/u better).
My suggestion is to try to shoot both before making the investment. Get the one that fits you best. And get the KO system. Recoil may not be an issue now but it may be later in your life due to health problems. Also, after you break your first 100 straight with it, good luck with trying to keep others from asking to fondle or shoot it! lol
Looking for a good sporting clays, skeet gun. Ill be trying this shotgun over the weekend.. I brought one up to my shoulder and my sight picture was perfect.
I have the A400 30" Parallel Target with KO. Took a while but I have it setup perfect for me now and ran my first 25 straight with it recently.
Notes:
Benefit of the Parallel comb is that your mount or clothing / vests / etc wont change LOP which changes drop on a conventional sloped comb stock and will change POI on a trap gun [or any gun.]
The PT stock is made for the 45mm drop spacer max - Beretta says stocks can crack with higher spacers [there is a debate on this.] In my case [I like a lot of drop] the 45 made me look down from above on the rib; I experimented with other spacers all the way up to 65 before installing a 1/2" Add-a-Rib and moving back up one spacer at a time until I am now at 45 with a 'normal' rib/bead picture.
As for the KO system I shot 4 rounds [100 shells] in a 1.5 hr stretch; 1 1/8 oz 1200 fps bangers and did not feel a thing. My shoulder is acting up and this is a blessing.
Get a shell catcher and you are all set.
This is now a dedicated trap gun; I tried it in various configurations on skeet range and never could hit anything well.
I would get the KO on any A400 model.
As for the action I am impressed with the bolt design, stays pretty clean, and never fails to cycle. I don't like that you cant pop the bolt handle out without manipulating the bolt into precise position but that is a nitpick. Also the bbl / piston takes a bit of wiggling to take on and off; not like a Remington or Benelli where it just drops in.
But overall the A400 is a great gun; some like the blue some hate it. I only use mine at the range so it doesn't bother me.
Notes:
Benefit of the Parallel comb is that your mount or clothing / vests / etc wont change LOP which changes drop on a conventional sloped comb stock and will change POI on a trap gun [or any gun.]
The PT stock is made for the 45mm drop spacer max - Beretta says stocks can crack with higher spacers [there is a debate on this.] In my case [I like a lot of drop] the 45 made me look down from above on the rib; I experimented with other spacers all the way up to 65 before installing a 1/2" Add-a-Rib and moving back up one spacer at a time until I am now at 45 with a 'normal' rib/bead picture.
As for the KO system I shot 4 rounds [100 shells] in a 1.5 hr stretch; 1 1/8 oz 1200 fps bangers and did not feel a thing. My shoulder is acting up and this is a blessing.
Get a shell catcher and you are all set.
This is now a dedicated trap gun; I tried it in various configurations on skeet range and never could hit anything well.
I would get the KO on any A400 model.
As for the action I am impressed with the bolt design, stays pretty clean, and never fails to cycle. I don't like that you cant pop the bolt handle out without manipulating the bolt into precise position but that is a nitpick. Also the bbl / piston takes a bit of wiggling to take on and off; not like a Remington or Benelli where it just drops in.
But overall the A400 is a great gun; some like the blue some hate it. I only use mine at the range so it doesn't bother me.
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