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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I look at the name of our organization, AMATEUR Trapshooting Association, and I think 'it's not for amateurs anymore'.

Isn't it time for a differentiation between those of us who shoot for love of the sport and fun, and those that make their living at it. The pro shooters, who are factory reps, full-time instructors, or any occupation that provides a living to the shooter, should be in a separate category. It isn't a level shooting field when we have to compete with a shooter who can and does practice everyday and shoots tens of thousands of birds each year.

It is time that the pros had their own category, where they can compete against one another and leave we amateurs to fight it out amongst ourselves.

Jack Young
 

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Jack, I don't want them is a separate class. I just want to give more people a chance at their option money. Afterall, they've been stealing most of the food from the little dogs bowl for way too long!!
 

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I have an idea Jack. Why don't you come up with a plan to secure the funding for this so called "Pro" Category. After all you are suggesting it you should be able to tell us how to set up the rules and where the prize money will come from.

What is needed to know is how do you determine "Pro" status. If the shooter doesn't stand a chance to make the living you think they are making now how will they qualify as a "Pro". How will they be made to stay a "Pro"

Go for it I for one would love to read your ideas. That is if you actually have ideas on making a "Pro" category.

Bob Lawless
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I anticipated a loud, vocal response from different sources when I opened this thread, and I am not disappointed.

The differentiation between pro and amateur is simple. If you receive stipends, salary, or monetary considerations from manufacturers to enable you to shoot on a full-time basis, then you are a pro. The funding for prizes comes from the same place that it does now-shooting industry support, private donations, and entry fees.

If we all put our heads together and work towards a positive solution, rather than slamming the idea and contributing only negativity, something good might come out of this.

Jack
 

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I agree with shaggist and always have concerning any shooter that derives a part or full time living from the sport. Just my opinion.
 

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My suggestion is that when you sign up you declare whether you are going to shoot for the money or the trophies, etc.. Then publish two lists, one for trophies winners and one for money winners. Once you shoot for money you can not become an All-American or claim any other awards.

Ed Fish
Racine, WI
 

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If any shooter charges for instruction, recieves Shells, or reloading supplies, Trapguns or Loaner Guns from the factory, or any stipend that regular ATA trapshooters are not entitled to is a PRO.

The PRO category is going to have to acquire their own shooting Trophies, Monies, Categories, not the ATA shooters monies. Monies would come from Shell Mfgrs, Gun Companies, Target Companies, Budweiser, Coors, Etc IF THEY WANT TO SUPPORT THE PRO'S.

Nothing from the ATA except Industry Trophy's.

Shell Company Reps, Target Mfgr Reps, Gun Mfgr Reps are INDUSTRY REPS.

Gary Bryant
Dr.longshot
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Gary has responed as I hope many others will, with knowledgeable suggestions as to the differentiation between Pro and Amateur.

Very few, if any, amateurs can compete with those who are partially or wholly supported by the shooting industry, and the monies that the amateurs contribute through their membership dues and fees paid during the shooting year should not be available to the pros in any capacity.

Let's keep these ideas flowing, and maybe, in the future, we shall have a chance to be competitive within our own category.

Jack
 

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+1 for Gary and Shaggist.

Pat
 

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For many years, there was an Industry class. As I recall, both Industry and Junior classes were not allowed to play purse options in the ATA. This goes back 20 + years. At that time all the Industry people were top shooters. My first wife's god father was a Winchester Rep., Loreen, as an industry rep, received guns, ammo and shooting fees. As a rep, he worked all the tournaments in his sales territory along with major shoots in nearby states. He was both a skeet and trap shooter and he once told me his lowest average was 95 in 20 gauge skeet. This was in the late 50's and early 60's, long before the 99+ avg.s of today.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Excellent! Ideas are flowing that, if incorporated, could make our sport much more fun, at least for the amateurs.

Why not have an Industry or Professional class, that competes for their own monies and trophies. None of yours and my ATA fees and entry costs would accrue to this class, as well as added prize monies. Most of us will never be competitive at a Harlan Campbell level, and shouldn't have to compete against top quality shooters of this skill attainment.

Keep the ideas coming! I feel encouraged by what has been proposed so far. Make sure your ATA delegate is aware of the feelings of the members of your district, as it will take alot of input from we amateurs to effect changes in the status quo.

Jack
 

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"The pro shooters, who are factory reps, full-time instructors, or any occupation that provides a living to the shooter, should be in a separate category."

This statement needs to be clarified as an example, "any occupation that provides a living to the shooter" wouldn't everyone except the independently wealthy fit that category?????

"The funding for prizes comes from the same place that it does now-shooting industry support, private donations, and entry fees."

To my knowledge there is no money from entry fees. Also the only industry support that I have seen is events like the gun companies that sponsor shooting events. You said "they can compete against one another and leave we amateurs to fight it out amongst ourselves." Well the events mentioned are open to all shooters how do you get around that won't the amateurs be shooting against the "Pros".

Gary said, and you liked it.

"The PRO category is going to have to acquire their own shooting Trophies, Monies, Categories, not the ATA shooters monies. Monies would come from Shell Mfgrs, Gun Companies, Target Companies, Budweiser, Coors, Etc IF THEY WANT TO SUPPORT THE PRO'S".

Tell us is that even allowed in a non-profit orginazation???? It is also the point I was trying to make in my other post someone has to secure these monies from companies. It can't be assumed that they will support this whole heartedly. A commitment from them needs to be secured that means someone has to do the leg work to get the required sponsor. It is very easy to say we need to get this done but it requires people to do it who will do it. I am going out on a limb here but I am betting it won't be you!!!!!!!

Bob Lawless
 

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If the "PRO'S" only shot for their money there wouldn't be enough to pay for the trip there and back to win it ... The biggest donations of all time came from a Mr and Mrs. Bill Martin of resent years and everyone had a shot at it even the Pros and to the best of my knowledge they didn't win the big one but sure cleaned up on the option moneys ... Call for a revolt and see how many people fall in line with you ... You lead and I'll follow, no problem ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
 

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You guys might have a point, I've often wondered about shooters getting free shells from manufactures and other perks that us common folks don't. I do love the sport and will continue shooting no matter, but it might be interesting to consider it!!

warren
 

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IVANHOE: Why would I or any other ATA shooter care who donates monies to shooters who put on classes to earn money, I could care less, they are earning fees and most of their classes are put on a few days before local big shoots.

Their travel fees are covered in instruction charges. And wages paid to get them there, they are not doing this for nothing, it is gainful employment and they are paying the IRS income tax and deducting expenses.

If a shooter, any shooter is charging a fee to put on a class or instruction for a fee is a Professional or is Indicating they are and should notify the ATA or the ATA be given a name and date of person putting on a class or instructions for a fee so they can be added to the PRO or INDUSTRY Class.

A firearms Dealer should also be an Industry Rep. as he or she is selling a product and able to get perks from the company such as wholesale cost of a gun.

If they were doing this on donations they would soon be a has been, they are dictating fees and they do not cover targets and shells, that is up to the student.

Gary Bryant
Dr.longshot
 

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So inorder to verify ones category placement, are ones yearly financial statement to be presented each year?

Is the ATA responsible for obtaining yearly financial statements from shell and gun manufacturers to prove receivership? When items are presented to another family member instead of actual receiver, this is to be addressed how?
 
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