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ATA Rule Questions

3307 Views 22 Replies 19 Participants Last post by  iamtrapshooter
This will be a 2 part question that deals with target setting/presentation.

First senario. Two expierenced shooter are shooting together in a ATA registered event, handicap yardage. After shooting and scoring 50 targets EACH it is realized that the trap was set on straightaways. Are these targets scored or need to be re-shot?

Second scenario. ATA registered handicap event with money on the line. A squad of shooters shoot targets on a field and move. The next squad go to the line and notice that the targets are only going half way to the 50 yard stake. upon inspection on of the uni bands was broken causing less tension on the arm. Should the squad that shot the short targets have to shoot them over?

Jimmy Bowen
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This will be a 2 part question that deals with target setting/presentation.

First sinario. Two expierenced shooter are shooting together in a ATA registered event, handicap yardage. After shooting and scoring 50 targets EACH it is realized that the trap was set on straightaways. Are these targets scored or need to be re-shot?

Second sinario. ATA registered handicap event with money on the line. A squad of shooters shoot targets on a field and move. The next squad go to the line and notice that the targets are only going half way to the 50 yard stake. upon inspection on of the uni bands was broken causing less tension on the arm. Should the squad that shot the short targets have to shoot them over?

Jimmy Bowen

What ric3677 said.

But there's no way that it would take two experienced shooters 50 targets each to realize the trap wasn't ocellating.

Cant imagine any squad of inexperienced shooters trying to shoot a complete round on a trap that's only throwing targets 25-30 yards. They're barely going out of the house before lighting on the ground.
 

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Happened to me once. First squad out on singles at the state shoot several years ago. After our first five shots we realized that the trap wasn't oscillating. Got it fixed (oscillating feature had been turned off). Man who fixed it was known to us, so we asked him whether we had to shoot the five targets over again. I don't remember what he said but we interpreted it to mean that yes, we did have to shoot over again. So we did. Figured out later that we shouldn't have done so. I, at least, did pay the price for my ignorance: I had run the first five, dropped one on the second.
 

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First - all the targets shot count - no re-do. Frequently, squads on the first flight out will encounter traps that have accidently been left in "manual" by the target setters. It is amazing to me that squads will not recognize the fact the trap is still locked and is throwing the same target.

Two stories from the Grand last year in Linn Creek. I was shooting Post 2 in the CoC event. We started and before before I fired my second shot, I suspected the trap was still locked. I stopped the squad prior to our third shot and I was correct, the target setters had not returned the trap to auto. # 1 shooter was pissed at me for stopping the squad, two others did not have clue (including #3) and the guy on 5 also suspected the trap was still locked.

The second story - I was an observer and not on the squad that was shooting. I think it was on bank 7 - but they had just replaced that trap (yes, in the middle of the event). the squad shot their first 25 and one of the shooters declared the newly installed trap had a left hand bias and he wanted the issue corrected. So they checked and sure enough, the trap was not properly aligned and did have a couple of feet of left hand bias. So the bias was corrected and the squad started shooting again. I am still sitting in my cart on the embankment behind the trap and it was clear to me the trap was still locked. The officials and mechanics were still there and I told them they left the trap in manual. they began to observe and it was obvious. What got me was the fact the shoot officials allowed the squad to shoot the entire first post before they stopped them and turned the trap back into auto. Funnier yet was the shooter on the squad who was sensitive enough to tell the trap had a left hand bias was suddenly ignorant of the fact he was shooting on a locked trap !!
 

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This post brings up a question. If you suspect the machine is locked after a few shots, when should you stop and have it looked at? I suspect the answer is right before you shoot, but it also makes sense to wait for the rotation. What does everyone think?
 

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f you suspect the machine is locked after a few shots, when should you stop and have it looked at? I suspect the answer is right before you shoot, but it also makes sense to wait for the rotation.
I believe stopping the squad after #5 and before #1 is when to call STOP. No one gets a further advantage and no one is denied the same advantage others on the squad received.
 

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It's hard to believe that "experienced" shooters went that long without noticing either scenario. Shame on them for shooting more than a few without saying something. If any in the second scenario won any money they might as well have stolen it from the pot. That was cheating every shooter participating.
 

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I was on the short yardage squad with a 20.5 yd shooter on post 1, and I was on post 3, 20 yd shooter. That made up squad #1, and the other squad was two shooters, one at 22.5 and other at 24 yds, and that made up squad #2. Our 1st 50 was on trap 3, the targets was going to the 50 yd stakes. I know so, because I missed 8 on the first box, and I'd seen go to the stakes. We shot 50 per trap then we went to trap 4 to shoot our next 50. We started on trap 4, and on my 2nd target out, I'd seen they were straight aways. I called the range manager over, and he checked the machine, and it was on lock out straight. So he fixed it so it oscillated. When we shot on trap 3, there were no uni bands broke. They were good targets on 3 and 4 was straight aways. that the story, as far as money goes i was the only one playing lewis class i finished with 17,20,22 and 23 for 82 no lewis money for me. thanks for your comments. Troy Smith or smooothnova
 

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I was at the Southwestern Grand this spring in San Antonio and it was obvious to me that the trap was not throwing targets properly. It would throw the exact same target 10 times and then move and throw 10 more a different way. I had them call the mechanic and he swore up and down there was nothing wrong and we just happened to be getting the same target each time. He said a prior squad had also complained and there was nothing wrong. So we shot them. The next squad up had the president of the Texas Trapshooting Association on the squad and they shot a few targets and called the same mechanic and told him the same story (10 targets the same, then it moves and throws 10 more). This time the mechanic actually did fix the machine (something about some reset had to be done). But it was so obvious that there was something wrong but the mechanic would not believe it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Hey guys, I've been shooting all day and just looked at this.

First of all, both scenario's happened. Nothing made up or hypothetical.

Pheasantmaster, in both cases they were experienced shooters.

Joe Trapalino, it should be corrected as soon as it is noticed but when the rotation happens would be the "easiest" .

jk80, again they were shooters that have shot thousands of rounds. And in the second scenario they did win a good chunk of money.

Here is my take on this, which to some it won't mean squat.

In the ATA rule book there is a section on squad leader responsibilities and target observation. If by chance the squad leader isn't experienced enough to notice an illegal target anyone on the squad can say something, and should. All of us have the responsibility to say something if something is wrong.
There is also a section on target flights and angles and distance. If any of these aren't what they're supposed to be they aren't a legal target. Period.
I also know that it says in the rule book that if a illegal target is shot at that is should be scored as such. But 100 of them ....c'mon.

I can tell you this. It ain't gonna happen on any squad that I'm shooting on.

Jimmy Bowen
 

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Jimmy. the guy who shoot with me was high handicap with a 93 he did not play Lewis class or any options. The targets we shot were legal targets on the first trap or trap 3 where we shot our first 50 on then we moved to trap 4 that was throwing straight aways and like said on my second shot I stopped our squad and had the trap looked at, we shot legal targets they did not. Until they shot them over. That's the way it was, Troy Smith
 
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