[Barry C. Roach]

This is a reprint from a comment I made on Bruce Bowen's thread about a National Shooting Sports Federation finding and report. Several of the comments in that thread prompted my response and I thought it important to give it it's own thread. Here it is:

"The ATA DOES allow non-members to shoot ATA sanctioned events with registered shooters in their new singles and doubles league program. The program is pretty new. If you watch the "crawler" at the top left of this site you will find an ad for it. The ATA has seen the light and now realizes that, if you expect to gather new shooters, you'd better give them a taste of the real thing.

Click on it or go to www.shootata.com for the details. I will be highlighting this and the Big 50 program in future threads."

Bruce Bowen is right, folks ... It's not just the economy if you buy into the NSSF findings. If you wish to discuss this with me, feel free to contact me at [email protected] or the PM feature here.

Thanks .... Bear.

 

[running bear]

Non ATA shooters can only shoot with the Big 50 targets?

Buck

 

[Barry C. Roach]

Yes. The leagues are one of the gateways to ATA membership. Our organization depends on membership, eventually. It lives on the dollars derived from membership and member participation.

The Big 50 is a way to get into more competitive trapshooting without breaking the bank and having to spend the entire weekend to play. There, a new member can mix with the sustained members in a less costly and less intimidating environment.

 

[likes-to-shoot]

The big 50's are a great way to get some registered targets, good practice for the longer events and have a quick night or day of fun.

Some of the clubs I've shot at also incorporated a derby (didn't have to participate if you didn't want to) with the singles and handicap.

 

[Barry C. Roach]

Last thursday, I met with Steve Carmichael at the Clark County Shooting Park. He has a nice program written for his Big 50 shoots.

 

[Barry C. Roach]

Now this is how you write a successful Big 50 program. Notice that there is purse money built right in to each event entry and he has solicited some Fiocchi shells for trophies. Also see that Steve has gotten the NSTA to "waive" their daily fees. I'd be interested in knowing if YOU like this program for your Big 50 program?



Website Address: http://www.clarkcountynv.gov/shootingcomplex
If you're in our area during the following dates, drop by the Clark County Shooting Complex and join us for our BIG 50 programs. These will be held on the 1st and 3rd Saturdays of January, March, & May, 2014. Registration at 9am, Program begins at 10am.

Many thanks to Fiocchi for provding giveaway ammo for these events!

A.T.A Daily Fee (reduced)......$1.50 N.S.T.A. Daily Fee (waived).....0.00

Event 1- 50 16yd..............$18.00* * $5 of each entry to Lewis Class (3)

Event 2- BIG 50 Fiocchi Hdcp..$28.00** ** $5 of each entry to Lewis Class (3) **$10 of each entry to open purse divided 50-30-20% ONE FLAT OF FIOCCHI AMMUNITION TO HIGH SCORE (TIES DIVIDE)

Event 3- 50 Doubles...........$18.00*** *** $5 of each entry to Lewis Class (3)

High-Over-All ONE FLAT OF FIOCCHI AMMUNITION TO HOA (ties divide)

If you need an RV space, call Monday-Friday at (702) 455-2000, option 4.

Contact me if you have any questions by email, or call (702) 455-2005.

I can send you a program as an attachment by email if needed.

Steve Carmichael, Clark County Shooting Complex

 

[spitter]

Barry,

Question... leagues singles have been open to both ATA/Non-ATA previously, correct? But now it appear doubles have been added?

Thanks in advance,

j.

 

[Barry C. Roach]

Yep. Some veteran ATA doubles enthusiasts at Ben Avery are using it for practice with the added kick of a little friendly competition. It's not big yet but we're just getting started.

 

[scott calhoun]

Barry -

I see you have two threads going on this subject, so I'll ask the same question here.

I thought registered singles and doubles leagues have always been possible, at least for the last three years (we've had a registered singles league at Naperville for the past three years). I recall when we started I investigated registering our doubles league, and while we didn't do it due to lack of interest, I thought that it was possible/allowed.

What has changed in regard to registered singles and doubles leagues?

Regarding my opinion on the Big 50 program in Las Vegas, I'm curious what makes you think it's such a good one - what makes it successful? It appears to be 50 targets at practice-round pricing, with mandatory options. Is that the key to a successful program, including mandatory options? What is the alternative for the shooter that wants to shoot Big 50 targets to add to their target count for larger shoots, but doesn't want to be forced to play options?

I ask because of some first-hand experience with a mandatory-option shoot that is held in our area. It's not a registered shoot, but the cost for 50 targets is $65. $15 is for targets, and the remaining $50 are for food, mandatory options, Calcutta entry, etc. I have talked to some people who do not participate because of the mandatory options, because the majority of the options are geared toward the top shooters (purse, Calcutta, long runs for example).

Before the group hangs me from the highest tree, I want to be clear that I have no problem with a program like this, and in fact I participate and do my best to get other shooters from my club to participate also. It's non-registered, so anyone can shoot, but the most common response I get from people is that it's too expensive for 50 targets. It's at the clubs discretion to put on whatever type of program they want to have, and ultimately they are the ones that will either profit or fail depending on the success of their offering.

We have a lot of new(er) ATA shooters at my club, and generally speaking they are fairly inexperienced, new to the game, and generally not in contention for option payouts that favor the top scores. So I know that their participation declines when there are mandatory options. But it also seems like these are the type of shooters that the ATA is most trying to attract (from the perspective that generally most new shooters to the ATA don't start as AA/27/AA shooters). So I'm curious how the Big 50's in Las Vegas go over with the newer shooters? Do they draw new shooters, or are they populated with long-time, experienced ATA shooters that enjoy putting a few extra bucks into the kitty when they shoot?

Scott

 

[Barry C. Roach]

Scott. Steve Carmichael writes his own Big 50 program. There is nothing that says there has to be purses included in the entry. Steve knows his shooters and the mandatory purse there is small and has not been an obstacle, at least so far. He feels that his shooters want to "win a little something" if they shoot well. Vegas, being Vegas, Steve may be right for his club. He has a big following there.

He's had only two Big 50 shoots and had 19 shooters the first shoot and 27 shooting in the second. I think that's pretty good progress in two weeks of offering the program.

As to my promoting the ATA registered leagues and calling them new ... I think three years is pretty new when most ATA shooters neither paid attention, understood them or cared to find out about them. I was in that category of ATA members and they're new to me too.

All that said, my charge is to increase ATA membership on a regional basis with the hope that it will turn into a nationwide effort. I think the ATA leagues and the ATA Big 50 are brilliant tools to promote membership in the ATA. Please help us be successful we need your help. Bring a new shooter to the club and get her/him to join the fun. Thanks, Bear.

 

[Hap MecTweaks]

There was a time in ATA shooting when a shooter could make a choice in the way one signed up to shoot their registered targets.

1st, xx fee for registered only with no trophies awarded.

2nd, xxx fee for registered targets which included the trophy fee.

That should also be an option today to attract more shooters to the game.

Those programs were written as "targets & targets and trophy fee available. Club operators made the decision that everyone shooting registered targets would partake of the 2nd option above if they wanted to shoot any registered targets.

Just threw that out as historical food for thought as an added option to harvest more shooters long enough for them to hook themselves.

HAP

 

[Barry C. Roach]

Hap. That program worked a lot like Obamacare's turning out. Not enough shooters opting to shoot for the trophies (the young and healthy) and, eventually, not enough revenue to cover the cost of the trophies for those who chose to shoot at the higher level.

We did that, for pretty large sums of added money, back in the late 80's at Mather's Land O' Sports in Springfield, IL. We gave the money away, regardless of entry numbers. We lost our ass. Maybe there's a way to successfully do it ... but we couldn't make it work.

It may work better in other parts of the country though ... perhaps Vegas where gambling is king.

Thanks for the idea though. Keep 'em coming. See you in Tucson? Bear.

 

[Two Dogs]

Is it not in the ATA rule book that says there will be NO mandatory options at ATA events?

 

[Hap MecTweaks]

Barry, all it takes to cover the added trophy costs is a minimal number of entries entered before a trophy is awarded, posted in the flier and let em shoot whatever they want? If your club awarded a trophy for a number losing money on those trophies can only mean a couple things?

Today we don't have the same drawing powers we had during that time frame to attract bigger numbers of shooters? Lumping beginners into a class system today in which us old timers are climbing down the class ladder is still way above any beginners abilities to win, place or show, regardless of classifications?? I don't think we have a problem attracting new shooters, we do have a terrible track record keeping them though? Till we address that, it's business as usual?

I wish you and your selling techniques all my best in growing our sport and will support you in every way! If relying on numbers alone to carry the weight, I wish us all luck my friend!

HAP

 

[Barry C. Roach]

Two Dogs. Mandatory purses are legal as long as there are no "ATA" trophies given and the program is written clearly.

Steve's program includes sponsor solicited trophies and the chance to win a few bucks, as well. It's a well thought out and executed program. I hope all gun club managers are as thoughtful and caring for the sport and it's members.

How does that sound?

 

[Steve Bills]

Hap: Very well said,I agree with your responds to Bear...Good luck Bear in your new job w/ the ATA...Hope much good can happen. Steve

 

[Two Dogs]

Sounds great Barry....