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From time to time I have seen the question what's happening to trap shooting. Well I think it is due to apathy on he part of many shooters. I travel to several different clubs here in central Fl. to shoot trap. Last week I went to shoot and the targets were so high it was unbelievable, I asked if anyone else thought they were too high, 3 other shooters said they didn't really care, one other shooter agreed with me so the targets were lowered to where they were acceptable. My point is that there seems to be a lack of knowledge concerning ATA rules I had a problem 2 years ago with a failure to fire issue at one club, scorer said it was a lost target and would not listen to what I read for her right out of the rule book, the guy running the shoot was the same way, he didn't want to listen till a few months later when it was explained to him at the SD Club by the state Rep. consequently is has been a long while since I have shot there. Last time I shot trap one field was throwing 2 hole targets while the other was throwing 3 hole targets, I believe the ATA says 2 hole targets . no one seemed to care except for myself and the other one shooter who agreed wit me concerning the high targets on the first field. has anyone else sensed any apathy on the field??
Woody
 

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I shot ATA at one small club and there were only a few handicap shooters and the person squadding wanted me to shoot from either one or two yards back from my yardage to make squadding
easier. When I said you weren't allowed he acted put out and said go ahead and shoot from my yardage. I watched another three man squad that had one shooter four yards and another five yards
difference from the shortest yardage. That was my first and last time shooting there.
Bud
 

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From time to time I have seen the question what's happening to trap shooting. Well I think it is due to apathy on he part of many shooters. I travel to several different clubs here in central Fl. to shoot trap. Last week I went to shoot and the targets were so high it was unbelievable, I asked if anyone else thought they were too high, 3 other shooters said they didn't really care, one other shooter agreed with me so the targets were lowered to where they were acceptable. My point is that there seems to be a lack of knowledge concerning ATA rules I had a problem 2 years ago with a failure to fire issue at one club, scorer said it was a lost target and would not listen to what I read for her right out of the rule book, the guy running the shoot was the same way, he didn't want to listen till a few months later when it was explained to him at the SD Club by the state Rep. consequently is has been a long while since I have shot there. Last time I shot trap one field was throwing 2 hole targets while the other was throwing 3 hole targets, I believe the ATA says 2 hole targets . no one seemed to care except for myself and the other one shooter who agreed wit me concerning the high targets on the first field. has anyone else sensed any apathy on the field??
Woody
A lack of knowledge of the rules is not new. It's probably not even unique to registered trap.

As a matter of fact, your own post shows a lack of knowledge of the rules, i.e., "Last time I shot trap one field was throwing 2 hole targets while the other was throwing 3 hole targets, I believe the ATA says 2 hole targets ."

The rules do not specify "2 hole," or "3 hole," and haven't done so for some time now. The correct rule is that the targets can't be less than 17 degrees off center (a center line through post 3), i.e., a "straight away" from a point 3.5 feet to the right of post one, or 3.5 feet to the left of post five.

Actually the only mention in the Rule book that comes close to being a "rule" that was "violated" the "last time" you shot was Section IV, G, 7:

"Should a trap be throwing targets that, although not necessarily illegal, appreciably vary from trap to trap, any shooter may request that management reset the trap even though prior squads have shot. The final decision as to whether or not a trap is to be reset will be made only by shoot management."
I put "rule" and "violated" in quotes since IV, G, 7 isn't exactly a rule so much as an "allowance." You're "allowed" to ask for a reset, but there is no rule that says that the traps have to all be set exactly the same. They should be set close to the same, of course, and IV, G, 7 allows any variance between fields to be corrected if shoot management agrees.

It's unfortunate that everyone isn't well versed in the rules, especially shoot management. But I don't see how we can change that.

I always encourage everyone to read the Rule Book, and do it at least once a year, cover to cover. It changes.
 

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There are lots of folks that know the rules, but the rules they know are from 40 years ago.
 

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It's unfortunate that everyone isn't well versed in the rules, especially shoot management. But I don't see how we can change that
If the ATA had an ongoing shoot management recruitment, training and retention program, shoot management would know the rules and it would result in improving and growing ATA shooting. With your knowledge, they should recruit you to run it.
 

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Download a copy AND order your own copy from here;

http://www.shootata.com/AboutUs/ATABylaws,Rulebook,Forms.aspx

while waiting for your hard copy to come in the mail read the downloaded copy several times through.

Carry your hard copy in your shooting bag and pull it out once in a while to refresh your memory. Show management chapter and verse if you have a complaint but be right or you will be disruptive of the shoot and pitched out on your ear.

Don T
 

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If the ATA had an ongoing shoot management recruitment, training and retention program, shoot management would know the rules and it would result in improving and growing ATA shooting. With your knowledge, they should recruit you to run it.
Jim, I think your idea is a good one, but would be better implemented by the state/provincial associations. They're closer to the people affected.

In fact, there is no prohibition on a state making such a requirement.

I think it would be good for the sport.

I'm sure, though, that there would be quite a few people that would bristle at the idea of having to become "certified" to run a shoot.
 

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There were a few things I like about skeet shooting and ONE was they have certified refs! Too many clubs hire kids off the street and they know about as much about ATA rules as they do about being an Astronaut! Back years ago there were traveling bands of score keepers who would work the Grand and the big shoots in the Midwest. Those kids knew their stuff about the rules! I don't think any club should hire score keepers, kids or otherwise, without a written test about the rules. As mentioned above, far too many people have no clue about the rules or are walking around with a rule book from 20 0r 30 years ago! Twice I have had people try to tell me my shells were illegal because I was shooting 1 oz. loads marked a 3-1/4 dram but ALSO clearly marked 1250 FPS. Both times I showed them the rule book about the rules on weight and FPS and told them the ATA dropped the outdated DRAM EQUV. system years ago! About a year ago I was in a small shoot and one of the guys running it said ANY shell over 1250 was not legal. He wouldn't quit arguing until I showed him the ammo rule. At one shoot some I was at a while back some guy was trying to tell a kid that his 870 with a** Poly Choke was illegal. I finally had enough and told him there wasn't anything in the rule book that said so. When he tried to argue, I bet the guy 50 bucks and told him if he found it in the rules that said no Poly Chokes I would both pay him and EAT the rule book in front of him! He said he would "find it and stormed off but ,was last seen sneaking out of the parking lot. I've even heard one case where some nut job even tried telling a kid he couldn't shoot wearing camo clothing ! Years ago I was hated for awhile in the deep south because a few state shoots were having "mandatory" purses" on their main Handicap events though the rules stated that was no permitted in ANY event where the ATA provided trophies. I protested and filled one complaint and got it stopped was my name was mud for awhile. One guy admitted I was right but, claimed he had never read that. The kicker was he was on the CHC! There are dozens of others but the simple fact most people don't KNOW the rules and many have NEVER read them! To be fair I know a few clubs who train their help right and their score keepers have their act together. There are also many ATA shooters who review the rules and keep up to date on them but, there are far too many who don't.
 

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Scott, the ATA has the money to do this, the states don't. If certification came with a proper recognition program, even the most experienced guys would be glad to sign up. Give them a shirt, hat and a free entry in a Grand event called the "Manager's Handicap".

Every professional organization has professional designations that can be earned to indicate the level of competence and experience a person has achieved. It would be easy for the ATA to create a program. After all, no shoot managers, no shoots and if you look at the real reason that ATA targets are down, it is because hundreds of clubs are no longer throwing ATA targets. No secret causes, just plain old math.
 
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