[Slugo]

there seems to be a growing popularity for them. Peaked my curiosity, so I ordered a pair just to tryout. Muller's version of the Browning Invector-DS for use in my Browning 725/32" Sporting. I selected a combo; U1 which equals SK/IC and a U2 which equals IC/LM. I will pattern them against my factory Browning Invector-DS SK and IC.

The Muller's are reported to be half the weight of titanium and twice as strong as steel. Should be fun...

 

[Neil Winston]

. . . and they slice and dice and make hundreds of julienne fries in seconds.

Neil

 

[Slugo]

LOLOL!! Good one, Neil... =)

 

[Trap2]

But wait! That's not all! Buy one, and get the second one absolutely free! That's right. Buy one now and we will send you another absolutely free for just shipping and handling. ($59.95).....

 

[JACK]

Moooo-lers. Get it right please

 

[687_SP_II]

I got them at the end of last year. Patterns looked real good on paper. U3 for 16yd and mid range Hdpc. and U2 and U3 for Dbls. Need to get to the club and put some shot on clays.

 

[Gapper]

The Mullers are nice and light, field performance seems to be as good as any other quality choke tube.

The Muller tubes are controversial, mostly due to advertising hype, but also because of the alloy composition. They've seem to incurred a love/hate with lots of folks; to me they worked about the same as most other similar constriction chokes.

Never bothered with the pattern board, they shot well enough. It makes it easier to sell a gun when Mullers are part of the deal!

The light weight was nice for such a long tube, especially in an O/U.

Regards, GAP

 

[GrandpasArms]

Good product. Reasonable cost. Great service. Work as well or better than alternatives. I actually patterned my Optima ones and am pleased with results.

Larry

 

[goose2]

Tried them on my k 80. Lighter yes, but no better than any other choke.

 

[Gapper]

Well there you go. The chokes are said to be lighter and they are.

Truth in advertising.

 

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I have been using them for a little while and really like them. They pattern very well, easy to clean and are lighter than steel ones. They have a lifetime warranty. I am still testing some other brands of chokes to see how they compare. My loads are 1oz #7 1/2 and 7/8 #8. Thanks, Eric

 

[Neil Winston]

Gapper, since you brought up "Truth in Advertising" I guess it's fair to cite an example.

As you know, Muller chokes are the result of more than 12,000 pattern tests, which is why each is matched to the kind of gun it is intended for.

And the results really are remarkable. This is from a folder I got with my Ü3 and Ü4 tubes.

You may justifiably wonder how the Muller tube could be so much better. Let's analyze those patterns with Shotgun-Insight ®. It's great for challenges like this.

Here's the non-Muller pattern:

As you see, there are 200 pellets total on the paper and the pattern looks pretty awful. The reason is found in the bar-graphs at the right and bottom. This pattern has a very, very "hot" center in comparison with the periphery as illustrated by those very "humped" curves.


And here's the Muller pattern

Now look at the pellet count, it's up to 400. So are we to conclude that Muller's chokes double the pellets on the paper?

But that's not the real problem. Anyone looking at that Muller pattern will recognize it as a amateurish fake. It was just done with a pen. No patterns look like that. Not even Mullers. Look at the bar-graphs to the right and below. The pattern is very even, right up to the edge. But there are no real patterns like that. Doesn't the guy making this folder think we know that? How dumb does he take us for?

In a way, the folder admits that:

But there are a couple of problems with just those two simple, declarative sentences.

1. The pictured patterns are _not_ representative; at least one of them is just a fake.

2. When I requested the "actual data," twice, it was not made available to me.

And why did he need to use "representations of actual target test results?" Out of 12,000 patterns he couldn't find two that would make his point without all that obvious, ham-fisted fakery?

Neil

 

[dickgtax]

So you get a 32" barrel to make it heavier, Muller chokes to make it lighter; but the 2" longer barrel gives you a longer sighting plane that you're not supposed to look at.

Makes sense.

 

[Gapper]

The problem in "tilting at windmills" - one has to decide if it's done for some better cause; or if it's just to "play gotcha" - letting everyone know they are less intelligent or less honest than thee.

Big man on campus syndrome. Even the unwashed masses perceive it; all it leaves is a$$-kissers.


Advertising hype is everywhere, various degrees of "the truth", whatever it may be, exist. Unfortunate? Survival of the fittest is the reality. And $$$$$ is a universal truth.

As has been pointed out; stuff like "more even patterns", "better distribution", "less felt recoil", so on, has to be taken with a grain of salt - like almost everything else on this site - and everywhere else.

People get duped all the time, but I don't see much of the stuff on Muller's latest site as being all that bad.

Light weight? Yes.

More consistent? Possibly it is easier to hold to tighter tolerances with the softer materials he uses. Less tool wear. That would lead to consistency between tubes and during the production run.

Enhanced distribution representation? DUH. The choke is tighter, therefore has better distribution toward the center of the pattern. Where it needs to be. See it now?

Cleaner? Teflon coating has better non-stick qualities than steel, especially 17-4PH SS.


Or maybe he cleans them with rubbing alcohol before shipping.

That "Pattern representation" exhibits radial stringing, generally caused by "overchoking" and might be enough to re-evaluate purchase. Maybe, but likely not. Expect advertising hype.

If one dissects every advertising claim before purchase, the end result is going cold, barefoot and hungry.

Like Diogenes looking for an honest man. GAP

 

[ysr_racer]

Muller chokes cured my lumbago !!!

That's how good they are.

 

[Easystreet]

As soon as I saw that "shot pattern illustration" of the Muller choke from the Muller literature posted by Neil above, I knew it couldn't be a real pattern. However, I'm sure that lots of people could easily be duped into thinking it was a real pattern. Those are likely the people that bought the Muller chokes.

Neil, if you have patterned the Mullers in comparison with other choke tubes, I'd be interested in seeing the results.

Slugo, be sure to measure the diameter of the chokes that you compare when you do your pattern tests. Don't just go by the designation stamped on the side of the choke tube. Many OEM supplied choke tubes are way more open than the designation stamped on the side of them would suggest.

Easystreet

 

[timb99]

Nonsense Gapper.

There are many, many entities out there who help the consumer by testing the advertising claims of manufacturers, whether it is cars or appliances, or Ronco pocket fisherman.

Are we to take advertisers claims as fact? Heaven forbid.

Muller is in business to sell choke tubes. The people who buy them are interested in breaking clays.

I for one, like to hear the results of testing to confirm or refute advertising claims.

Having facts is better than believing hype.

 

[Gapper]

Timb99,

no one told you to "take advertised claims as fact."

Feel free to test any claims or read any results of testing.

I am glad to read that you are in complete agreement with me as far as Muller wanting to sell chokes, and the people's motivation to buy choke tubes, and that having facts is better than believing hype.

We seem to be in disagreement about men's motivations. So be it.

What part of Muller's current advertising or sales technique do you disagree with? Anything specific that you could take to court or to the Better Business Bureau?

Or do you just have nonsense? GAP

 

[Neil Winston]

That's the whole point, GAP. The advertising I posted is nonsense. What's wrong with pointing that out? It was you, after all, who first brought up truth in advertising - and now you don't like to see it tested.

The part of Muller's current advertising technique I object to is that he asks us to believe so many impossible things about his products and when someone pointed a problem out he went ballistic.

If you "don't see much of the stuff on Muller's latest site as being all that bad." you are not paying attention.


Neil

 

[reddbudd]

I had a set for a Blaser. I sold the gun so I sold the chokes. Overall I liked them. To me the biggest positive was that they cleaned up very easily.

A lot of people cite the light weight. I wonder how many of them could tell the difference if mounting the gun blindfolded. Bud