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Discussion Starter #1
http://www.fieldandstream.com/fieldstream/hunting/photogallery/article/0,13355,1579019_4,00.html<br>
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This time it's not even an AR15 David E Petzal is ragging about, but (oh the humanity) the CAMO FINISH on the new Savage Predator rifle:<br>
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"Savage Model 10 Predator Hunter and MK II Classic<br>
The Model 10 Predator Hunter (top) appealed to me because it’s a varmint rifle that does not require a block and tackle and eight draft horses to lift. It’s just the right weight to carry around and still be very, very accurate. It comes in the usual varmint-shooting calibers. I find the camo to be unfortunate, and trust that Savage will have the good taste to make a version that doesn’t look like swamp grass."<br>
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It just saddens me to see supposedly knowledgable gun writers belittle firearms. I'll bet this twit hasn't done much if any serious coyote hunting.<br>
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Here's a link to the Savage page for the rifle:<br>
http://www.savagearms.com/2007_pressrelease.htm<br>
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I'm not sure about the context in which those words were spoken. I read it as
"they could have done a better camo job" rather than "camo (in general) is poor taste"
 
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Frankly, I agree with the guy...

Camo-finished guns look to me like somebody puked all over them.

Mike
 

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Brian,

I generally am in agreement with your posts, but I think that you just misinterpreted the writers meaning. He's just saying that he doesn't like the camo that they chose, or he doesn't like camo on guns period. I fully understand that camo is definite advantage in the field, especially with turkeys and some varmints, but I also think that it's ugly as hell. Would I turkey hunt without a camo gun? Nope.


Brett d.
 

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Anyone think to ask the writer just what he meant by his comment? Obviously some of us have different takes on the same words, so maybe he deserves a chance to clarify before we condemn him.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
"I find the camo to be unfortunate, and trust that Savage will have the good taste to make a version that doesn’t look like swamp grass."<br>
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Notice the key word "unfortunate". Why use that word?<br>
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Why not "I don't personally care for camo, but others do find a use for it."<br>
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He's a writer, and he knows exactly what words mean. I take him at his word.<br>
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Further, he then goes on to comment on "good taste" hoping another with presumably shiny polished blued metal and fine, english walnut with 18 LPI checkering and a super glossy finish will be offered. That would be "good taste".<br>
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That part shows he does not really understand coyote hunting. You don't want a shiny rifle. You want a dull rifle. Matte finish. You can get dull matte blueing and a flat finish on walnut. But even if he did mean a more "traditional" version but in matte, he still comes acros as being an asshat for not understanding the need for camo for hunting coyotes.<br>
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I've hunted coyotes in blue jeans and an old west buckskin jacket, with a shiny "good taste" rifle. And I've killed coyotes as close as 30 feet that way.<br>
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But, and here is the key point - you aini't gunna bring in an "educated" coyote that way. Young, dumb ones, mainly those kicked out on their own in the fall, are usually easy pickings if you can simply stay still. Hell, one coyote hunter who wrote a damn fine book on the subject has photos of himself wearing a SANTA SUIT to hunt the dumber coyotes.<br>
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Coyotes are incredibly intelligent, and they only make one mistake. And ither they're dead, or they never make that mistake again. The coyotes you need camo, and ghillie suits, etc., for are the survivors of grustrated deer hunters who have banged away at them. These coyotes are not easily fooled. I've had a big coyote, big enough to have survived a few seasons, spot the glint off my handgun at 300 yards, even though I was wearing full camo and had foliage draped over me. It wasn't smell, the wind wasn't right for that.<br>
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And note this is not a "coyote" rifle, but a "predator" rifle. There are other predators than coyotes. Like bobcats and mountain lions. In Oregon, you have to call mountain lions in just like coyotes. No hunting with dogs. If you think hunting coyotes is tough, try mountain lions. You need all the camo and deception you can muster.<br>
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And now, the smoking gun....<br>
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Perhaps some of you are not aware of it, but David E. Petzal is a Fudd, and was as bad as Zumbo is (or was?) long before Zumbo got keel-hauled for it. Here is what he said back in 1994:<br>
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"Gun owners -- all gun owners -- pay a heavy price for having to defend the availability of these weapons. "The American public -- and the gun-owning public; especially the gun-owning public -- would be better off without the hardcore military arms, which puts the average sportsman in a real dilemma".An Uzi or an AKM or an AK-47 should be no more generally available than a Claymore mine or a block of C4 explosive."<br>
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We know he has a definite dislike for AR15's, et al. (which he's recently backpeddling on so he doesn't get boycotted and fired too), and now he makes a disparaging remark about a camo predator rifle. These Field & Stream writers have been our worst enemies for years. It's one thing to take on Pete Shields and Sarah Brady head to head, it's quyite another to be backstabbed by those who only believe in the hunting aspect of the Second Amendment (and yeah, I deliberately worded it that way, because that's how they view it).<br>
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Now do you see why I'm calling him on the carpet?
 

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What a dumb thing to bitch about- just because the writer doesn't like swamp grass! So what if the boy prefers bluing and pretty wood.

One would have to be completely paranoid to try to make that quote into an anti-gun sentiment.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Given the writers previous remarks, there's no paranoia about it.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Uh, to correct the record, this rifle is NOT camo'd in a "swamp grass" nor "shadow grass" pattern. It's in Mossy Oak Brush pattern. This pattern is a compromise between sage brush and light woods, where you'd typically put this rifle to use.<br>
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It just further shows that a supposedly knowledgable gun writer doesn't know what he's talking about.<br>
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I've posted a larger pic so y'all can make out the pattern more clearly.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Wireguy, well, you know if you don't wear the right camo, you'll never get any game, right? (Need a "rolleyes" emoticon inserted here.)<br>
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The biggest problem with camo lately is that it keeps getting more and larger dark areas. Mossy Oak New Breakup is one of the worst offenders. It might work well in southern hardwoods with harsh lighting, but it's getting too much black in it for much of where I hunt. I prefer the "obsolete" Mossy Oak breakup (not New). The darker a pattern gets, the more it tends to silhouette you. I'm pleased this has a lighter pattern.
 

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THANKS Brian, again.

This guys 1994 writing sure sounds like zumbo to me.

WAKE UP PEOPLE, FIELD AND STREAM SUCKS!!!

AJ100
 

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Here ya go, Bryan:

<MARQUEE WIDTH="100%" BEHAVIOR=scroll SCROLLAMOUNT=5 DIRECTION=left><a href="http://www.123glitter.com" target="_blank" title="Myspace Graphics">
</a></MARQUEE>
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Yeah, it may be fugly camo, but thinking about it, it matches ghillie suits almost perfectly.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Actually this Zumbo fracas has proven to be a blessing in disguise. It's put on notice those who will accept *some* gun bans, thinking their guns are safe. The fact is, the anti's are consuming the pie a slice at a time, and their eventual goal is the WHOLE pie. They will not be satisfied with only a cople of slices.<br>
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Witness VPC's attack on "sniper rifles". Their definition of a "sniper rifle" would cover target and varmint rifles. In fact, here's a quote that sums it up nicely from The Brady Campaign:<br>
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"There is no pressing need for optics that allow shooters to make sniper shots from over one hundred meters." Posted by Brady Campaign on Sunday, February 18, 2007 at 2:11 PM<br>
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Look what happened right after the VT insanity. Calls to totally ban semi-auto rifle and shotguns, and all handguns. Some even suggested special police units to go door to door without warrants to confiscate firearms not "voluntarily" surrendered. That is the mentality we're up against.<br>
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Make no mistake - IT'S ALL GUNS.
 
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