Trapshooters Forum banner

1 - 20 of 47 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have just recently noticed that alliant powder data on their website does not list any loads for Remington hulls with Winchester primers or vice versa. I was given a supply of Red Dot, so I was looking for loads on their website and they just don't list a load for Remington hulls with Winchester primers. We all know about the lack of Remington primers, so that becomes an issue. Anyone know why these would not be interchangeable?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
204 Posts
Different primers can have different ignition temps, duration, and/or gas production - all of which will affect the resulting powder burn rate and pressure spike. Would not shoot the loads without having a batch tested first.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
848 Posts
Rem primers are considered to have the least power, Win, Cheddite, and CCI a little bit hotter, but not always, and Fed 209A and CCI 209M the hottest. If you're not loading at the high end, say 10,000psi and up you'd have no problem subbing in the Win primers. I load 8500psi and less and have never worried which mid range primer I used. Most guys if subbing in a Fed primer in place of a mid range one will go down one grain in powder. Looking at a load in my Hodgdon manual using Intrernat'l with a Rem hull there is no difference between a Rem or Win primer. You be the judge. I wouldn't give it a second thought.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,279 Posts
Paul (at Alliant) told me via email that Alliant recommends that you do not substitute primers if the load recipe is 9500psi or greater. They have had pressure deviations as much as of 2000psi when looking at various primers using a consistent powder charge. I you are working with a recipe in the upward pressure ranges, a primer substitution could put you beyond SAAMI specs.

K
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,904 Posts
There is another way to approach this deficiency in the Alliant data. Find an equivalent load using a Win hull; there will be many loads listed using Win primers. Find a load with the speed you are looking for with pressures about or a bit less than the 10K psi range. Then, use the Rem hull instead of the Win hull. This way, you treat it as a hull substitution instead of a primer substitution. The difference in performance between the Rem hull and the Win hull will not be as significant as the primer substitution will be.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32,240 Posts
Common thing for Alliant to publish loads that use hulls and primers of same manufacture where as Hodgdon offers mix of brands. Might want to get an issue of Lyman’s shot shell reloading manual as they have tested different hulls and primers. It will help round out your reloading library.
 
  • Like
Reactions: John Henry

·
Registered
Joined
·
312 Posts
I agree, Alliant doesn't list to many loads for Rem hulls using Win or Cheddite primers. I also agree with Nebs on his method as long as you're not close to maximum pressure. I load 18.5 gr. Red Dot for both 1 oz, (1225 FPS), and 1-1/8 oz, (1180 FPS), both are very soft shooting. I shoot 1 oz almost exclusively, no need to waste an extra 1/8 oz of the most expensive component. I also use the same recipe using Promo.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
750 Posts
Paul (at Alliant) told me via email that Alliant recommends that you do not substitute primers if the load recipe is 9500psi or greater. They have had pressure deviations as much as of 2000psi when looking at various primers using a consistent powder charge. I you are working with a recipe in the upward pressure ranges, a primer substitution could put you beyond SAAMI specs.

K
I too received the same answer when I contacted Alliant.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
602 Posts
I had the same question and used the Alliant "Ask the Expert" function.

Here is the reply:

Alliant Reloading <[email protected]>

Apr 10, 2019, 8:50 AM

to me



Pete,

Here is the data: https://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/powderlist.aspx?type=2&powderid=4&gauge=12 .

Again, this lists the use of Remington primers, but the pressures allow the use of your Winchester primers if they fall between 6500 – 8500 PSI.


Thanks,

Duane V. /Technical Service Representative
Alliant/Blazer/CCI/Speer
(800)379-1732


The load I have been using is:

Remington Nitro/STS/Gun Club/American Clay and Field hulls
Winchester 209 primer
17.8 grain - Red Dot
Claybusters CB1100-12 wad
1 oz hard #8 shot

1,200 fps 8,000 psi

Works great. Excellent reloads with a perfect stack height.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
124 Posts
I had the same question and used the Alliant "Ask the Expert" function.

Here is the reply:

Alliant Reloading <[email protected]>

Apr 10, 2019, 8:50 AM

to me



Pete,

Here is the data: https://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/powderlist.aspx?type=2&powderid=4&gauge=12 .

Again, this lists the use of Remington primers, but the pressures allow the use of your Winchester primers if they fall between 6500 – 8500 PSI.


Thanks,

Duane V. /Technical Service Representative
Alliant/Blazer/CCI/Speer
(800)379-1732


The load I have been using is:

Remington Nitro/STS/Gun Club/American Clay and Field hulls
Winchester 209 primer
17.8 grain - Red Dot
Claybusters CB1100-12 wad
1 oz hard #8 shot

1,200 fps 8,000 psi

Works great. Excellent reloads with a perfect stack height.
Shoot the same thing...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,004 Posts
I have just recently noticed that alliant powder data on their website does not list any loads for Remington hulls with Winchester primers or vice versa. I was given a supply of Red Dot, so I was looking for loads on their website and they just don't list a load for Remington hulls with Winchester primers. We all know about the lack of Remington primers, so that becomes an issue. Anyone know why these would not be interchangeable?
This is why spending alittle money for a shotgun reloading manual can be justified.

I do not care for Lyman manuals. I believe the RCBS to be my favorite but I also like the Reloading for Shotgunners manuals as well
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
682 Posts
There is another way to approach this deficiency in the Alliant data. Find an equivalent load using a Win hull; there will be many loads listed using Win primers. Find a load with the speed you are looking for with pressures about or a bit less than the 10K psi range. Then, use the Rem hull instead of the Win hull. This way, you treat it as a hull substitution instead of a primer substitution. The difference in performance between the Rem hull and the Win hull will not be as significant as the primer substitution will be.
Nebs is right. I pretty much load Win and Rem hulls interchangeably. Better to make that substitution than primers. I use the Win hull data.

1 1/8 oz
17.3 Red Dot
Win 209
WAA12
Gun Club hull
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,756 Posts
I prefer the powder makers' manuals. Local mom and pop used to give them away. You can also get them at bigger shoots from the vendors.

Any AA load is virtually identical if you substitute STS hulls, and vice versa. Seems like they like to list the primer from the same mfr. as the hull in many cases.

HM
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
922 Posts
I had the same question and used the Alliant "Ask the Expert" function.

Here is the reply:

Alliant Reloading <[email protected]>

Apr 10, 2019, 8:50 AM

to me



Pete,

Here is the data: https://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/powderlist.aspx?type=2&powderid=4&gauge=12 .

Again, this lists the use of Remington primers, but the pressures allow the use of your Winchester primers if they fall between 6500 – 8500 PSI.


Thanks,

Duane V. /Technical Service Representative
Alliant/Blazer/CCI/Speer
(800)379-1732


The load I have been using is:

Remington Nitro/STS/Gun Club/American Clay and Field hulls
Winchester 209 primer
17.8 grain - Red Dot
Claybusters CB1100-12 wad
1 oz hard #8 shot

1,200 fps 8,000 psi

Works great. Excellent reloads with a perfect stack height.
I got exactly the same letter from alliant, word for word. They must get asked so much that they have the response with a form letter.
 
1 - 20 of 47 Posts
Top