AIM and SCTP?
- Status
1 - 20 of 58 Posts
Joined
·
21,600 Posts
AIM and SCTP are two seperate entities completely. AIM is ATA's youth shooting program only covering the Trap games. SCTP is a complete clay target program including Skeet, Trap and Sporting Clays. I don't believe SCTP turned into AIM as they both still exist. We have both programs in our area. Maybe i misunderstood your question but as an assistant coach of our local high school team, i have heard nothing of the such.
Matt
Matt
Pat, I may be wrong but it doesn't sound like you have the whole story. I think we would have heard something by now if this were happening at a national level. Heck, it was just a few days ago that AIM released their 2011 Operations Handbook. That doesn't sound like an origination that is dissolving to me.
Joined
·
1,268 Posts
I predict that AIM will roll into SCTP with best portions of both continuing in new program.
ATA will finally support SCTP they way they should have before they started AIM.
SW
ATA will finally support SCTP they way they should have before they started AIM.
SW
Joined
·
10,525 Posts
The ATA should hire the people who started it and promoted it to run the ATA. What I saw in the SCTP was and continues to be a fine job at promotion. They did a fantastic job.
Joined
·
21,600 Posts
Barry--You are 100% right. Our kids shoot SCTP and AIM. The only reason we particpate in AIM is we like their classing system better and the chance to participate as a team at the Grand. With SCTP if a kid shoots a couple good scores he is classed up and there are no provisions for the kid to move donw where he/she may belong. With AIM they use the regular average classing system. Just my 2 cents anyway.---Matt
Joined
·
438 Posts
There is a proposal on the table from SSSF to merge with AIM. All of the different Zones are doing teleconference calls to discuss the merger. Once this happens the Vice presidents/ EC will meet to discuss the merger.
I have spoke to many AIM Directors and State delegates, not one of them is in favor of the merge. Thousands of dollars have been spent to develop the AIM program and there is no comparison between the two. You have Directors and Coaches that have spent Hundreds of dollars of there own money to go to Coaches classes.Right now you have nine Coaches classes scheduled across the USA. This is nothing more than a power move by people to get all of the shooting disciplines under one roof. The ATA has set aside funds to run the AIM program. So I think the SSSF needs the ATA and not the other way around.
Any youth shooter can shoot in either or both if they wish, nothing says they cannot.
Dennis Menning
Kentucky State AIM Director
I have spoke to many AIM Directors and State delegates, not one of them is in favor of the merge. Thousands of dollars have been spent to develop the AIM program and there is no comparison between the two. You have Directors and Coaches that have spent Hundreds of dollars of there own money to go to Coaches classes.Right now you have nine Coaches classes scheduled across the USA. This is nothing more than a power move by people to get all of the shooting disciplines under one roof. The ATA has set aside funds to run the AIM program. So I think the SSSF needs the ATA and not the other way around.
Any youth shooter can shoot in either or both if they wish, nothing says they cannot.
Dennis Menning
Kentucky State AIM Director
Joined
·
10,525 Posts
What is the SSSF, please?
Joined
·
10,525 Posts
Never heard of it but thank you. They should merge with SCTP and ride their promotional skills. If the SSSF was effective I'd have heard of them.
I've never seen two weak organizations merge and do well. The SCTP is already promoting all clay sports including trap. They are highly successful and that makes them the best fit for the ATA.
If there has been bad blood between the two in the past, it's time to make nice.
I've never seen two weak organizations merge and do well. The SCTP is already promoting all clay sports including trap. They are highly successful and that makes them the best fit for the ATA.
If there has been bad blood between the two in the past, it's time to make nice.
SCTP is designed to promote several different types of shotgun sports. AIM is intended to promote trap shooting. My interest is in trap shooting and AIM seems to be in a better position to promote my sport than is SCTP.
Barry- Are you aware of the organization that manages the SCTP activities?
Pat Ireland
Barry- Are you aware of the organization that manages the SCTP activities?
Pat Ireland
So....what I'm hearing from the postings in this tread is, that there is a proposal on the table from the SSSF (the organization that runs the SCTP) to merge with AIM (the ATA's youth program). is that correct? If so, does anyone have any specific details regarding the proposal? Anyone who has been a part of one of these conference calls care to talk about what was discussed?
If you ask me, the SSSF needs to stay as far away from the ATA as they can get. It’s clear to me as a head coach of a team that is participating in both the AIM and SCTP programs, that in Pennsylvania, the SCTP is head and shoulders above AIM. Also, we have attended the SCTP Nationals and I have talked to other coaches that have attended both national events and from what I have experienced and gathered the SCTP did a much better job.
....and for those of you who wonder why I said that the SSSF should get as far away from the ATA as they can get, just look behind the curtain. The SCTP is all about the kids/parents (i.e. the ones who are funding the program), the AIM is all about the ATA. It’s simple math and should not come as a surprise anyone!
If you ask me, the SSSF needs to stay as far away from the ATA as they can get. It’s clear to me as a head coach of a team that is participating in both the AIM and SCTP programs, that in Pennsylvania, the SCTP is head and shoulders above AIM. Also, we have attended the SCTP Nationals and I have talked to other coaches that have attended both national events and from what I have experienced and gathered the SCTP did a much better job.
....and for those of you who wonder why I said that the SSSF should get as far away from the ATA as they can get, just look behind the curtain. The SCTP is all about the kids/parents (i.e. the ones who are funding the program), the AIM is all about the ATA. It’s simple math and should not come as a surprise anyone!
Joined
·
21,600 Posts
My only complaint of the SCTP is some aspects of their classification system. I do however favor some of their methods of categorizing. I can find many things wrong with the AIM program but i like their class system. Its the normal ATA registered average system that all are use to and the Colleges look at. I think a merger could produce a top level system or huge mistake. It would depend on who was in charge!! I help coach our local high school team and we participate in both AIM and SCTP.
Matt
Matt
Joined
·
1,268 Posts
Well said Russ. I do feel we would be better with one program if we can work out the differences and all get along.
California is going to do whatever they want so let the other states unite!
SW
California is going to do whatever they want so let the other states unite!
SW
Joined
·
7,245 Posts
for what its worth - here is a my frustration with both sctp and aim---its hard to get a team of 5 youth shooters to stay together and be committed, their parents are probably not shooters , so they are overwhelmed. its hard enuf keeping track of my duaghters schedule for the summer!!!-- so we switched to aim--now , how do i find a team who all have shot required registered rocks? so we shot in the individual open class---we shoot with a lot of kids--they nor their parents cud care less about registered rocks!!-- aim doesnt have a female class-- my comment to them was " every registered shoot we go to has a female class- so why not in aim"? especially if we have to be registered in the first place!! where wud the ladies all american team members be, if they had to shoot in the mens division ALL of the time? ---one last thing, when trying to get parents to give their time and backing to a young shooter--take them to a shoot and spend 90% of your time WAiTING and 10% shooting and see how long they stay intrested!!!
Joined
·
7,593 Posts
I suggest that before everyone continues this ATA witch hunt. They should take the time to Google and search for Scholastic Clay Target Programs purpose.
After that I looked at 10 pages of search results and found less than a half dozen direct links to Trap shooting information. Now in my opinion if the SCTP is that orientated to other type of clays shooting sports. I for one feel that the ATA had no choice but create their own program.
I might also add that it was an expensive proposition for an association that is loosing money and not spending it on anything except the EC's collective expense accounts wouldn't you say.
You people need to step back and await the outcome of the meeting and phone conference. Instead of trying this case in the court of public appeal here on TS.com.
Bob Lawless
After that I looked at 10 pages of search results and found less than a half dozen direct links to Trap shooting information. Now in my opinion if the SCTP is that orientated to other type of clays shooting sports. I for one feel that the ATA had no choice but create their own program.
I might also add that it was an expensive proposition for an association that is loosing money and not spending it on anything except the EC's collective expense accounts wouldn't you say.
You people need to step back and await the outcome of the meeting and phone conference. Instead of trying this case in the court of public appeal here on TS.com.
Bob Lawless
Joined
·
284 Posts
I like alot of what is being said about the history of the collective youth programs. Most of which is correct, but let me fill in the holes for you.
ATA has always had a youth program. It was started in mid-seventies; it died and was resurrected by Edie Fleeman. She was appointed by Ray Greb to be the Youth Development Director. She was fired because the ATA wanted her to bring in memberships and really weren't concerned for anything more than that. In addition to which, from it's inception, AIM was never supported by the ATA by means of a directive sent to the state organizations. When kids showed up to shoot, they were treated poorly, to say the least. This was the same issue SCTP had with the ATA. The ATA Trap Coach Schools were set up with the idea that only trap would be taught at these schools. Don Sipes, the National Coach Trainer, decided that the NRA's agenda was better suited to have ALL the disciplines taught at these trap coach schools, NO exceptions. So, for those of you thinking that you are going to a "Trap Coach School" you are blowing your money in the wind. If you have the availability to get your kids into other disciplines, I think that is great, but ther is something called truth in advertising, isn't there?
Rightly so, Dr. Christy brought together a national program that worked outsidet the realm of the NGB's, while still honoring the game within the guidelines of the NGB's rules and regulations. It is a wonderful event for everybody!
Now, is it important that these kids get exposed to the national championship in a way that does not do anything for them? No. Where they are only seen as a commodity to support the membership of the NGB's? Oh, hell no.
Do your local high school football teams compete at the Super Bowl? No. Do the teams of the Super Bowl compete at your high school championship? No.
Do you see the picture I am painting for you here? Our children should be held near and dear to our hearts, not traded back and forth like they were baseball cards.
SCTP will more than likely take over AIM. Eventually, ALL disciplines will be under one NGB. If you don't see it, look harder.
Strength in numbers is a good thing, so don't discount or shun the idea; we will all benefit and honor our sports, as we should.
ATA has always had a youth program. It was started in mid-seventies; it died and was resurrected by Edie Fleeman. She was appointed by Ray Greb to be the Youth Development Director. She was fired because the ATA wanted her to bring in memberships and really weren't concerned for anything more than that. In addition to which, from it's inception, AIM was never supported by the ATA by means of a directive sent to the state organizations. When kids showed up to shoot, they were treated poorly, to say the least. This was the same issue SCTP had with the ATA. The ATA Trap Coach Schools were set up with the idea that only trap would be taught at these schools. Don Sipes, the National Coach Trainer, decided that the NRA's agenda was better suited to have ALL the disciplines taught at these trap coach schools, NO exceptions. So, for those of you thinking that you are going to a "Trap Coach School" you are blowing your money in the wind. If you have the availability to get your kids into other disciplines, I think that is great, but ther is something called truth in advertising, isn't there?
Rightly so, Dr. Christy brought together a national program that worked outsidet the realm of the NGB's, while still honoring the game within the guidelines of the NGB's rules and regulations. It is a wonderful event for everybody!
Now, is it important that these kids get exposed to the national championship in a way that does not do anything for them? No. Where they are only seen as a commodity to support the membership of the NGB's? Oh, hell no.
Do your local high school football teams compete at the Super Bowl? No. Do the teams of the Super Bowl compete at your high school championship? No.
Do you see the picture I am painting for you here? Our children should be held near and dear to our hearts, not traded back and forth like they were baseball cards.
SCTP will more than likely take over AIM. Eventually, ALL disciplines will be under one NGB. If you don't see it, look harder.
Strength in numbers is a good thing, so don't discount or shun the idea; we will all benefit and honor our sports, as we should.
Joined
·
10,525 Posts
Pat Ireland. Yes I'm aware of SCTP's role in promoting clay target shooting and that they promote more than american trapshooting.
They are, however, the best at promoting and organizing coaches to teach the sports. I know about the SCTP because of how many kids they put on the line. Hell, in Illinois they nurtured so many trapshooters that we had to separate them from our state shoot because we couldn't handle the crowd. The only thing I know about AIM is that they are trying to live off of the good works of the SCTP.
They have the organization of promotion that the ATA needs. If we're going to hire an exec. director we would do well to steal one away from the SCTP and turn him/her loose on the 35-55 year olds. It would be a piece of cake since they have the money and we don't have to discount targets just to get them to shoot.
They are, however, the best at promoting and organizing coaches to teach the sports. I know about the SCTP because of how many kids they put on the line. Hell, in Illinois they nurtured so many trapshooters that we had to separate them from our state shoot because we couldn't handle the crowd. The only thing I know about AIM is that they are trying to live off of the good works of the SCTP.
They have the organization of promotion that the ATA needs. If we're going to hire an exec. director we would do well to steal one away from the SCTP and turn him/her loose on the 35-55 year olds. It would be a piece of cake since they have the money and we don't have to discount targets just to get them to shoot.
If this roomer is true then this needs to be worked out NOW! I have parents asking me when the States and Nationals events are so they can plan their summers. They are not going to wait very long for an answer. How many of you who commented on this thread truly understand what a shooting program in today's world is competing with out there? My kid comes home with a sign-up flier in September for a Soccer program that starts the first week of April.
I have been asking the SCTP for their Nationals date for weeks and they keep putting me off. I can only assume that this is the reason for the delay. Just make a decision and stick to the dates.
We are a SCTP team that does AIM on the side. I think its fine to have two programs. Is competition a bad thing? The way I see it there are double the amount of trophies for my kids to compete for.
I have been asking the SCTP for their Nationals date for weeks and they keep putting me off. I can only assume that this is the reason for the delay. Just make a decision and stick to the dates.
We are a SCTP team that does AIM on the side. I think its fine to have two programs. Is competition a bad thing? The way I see it there are double the amount of trophies for my kids to compete for.
1 - 20 of 58 Posts
- Status
Join the discussion
Join now to ask and comment!