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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Here's a post I made on another trap shooting forum in response to suggestions that shooters adjust the comb to change the POI and adjust the rib to change the sight picture.

Let the brickbats fly...

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What I think most of the above posts miss relates to the fact that your cheek is soft, and resting it on the comb will not put your head in the same position relative to the gun every time you mount it. I have noticed that I can move the comb around quite a bit and still get the same sight picture (stacked beads) if I just move my cheek to a slightly different position on the comb. And there is a small range of cheek positions that feel exactly the same but give different sight pictures, resulting in a much different POI.

This leads me to use the rib to set the POI and the comb to set my gun mount. Put another way, I'll set the comb so that I can get a stacked bead sight picture, preferably with the most comfortable position of my cheek. This enables me to check (using the sight picture) to be sure I have the gun mounted correctly, i.e., the same way each time.

Having set the comb to yield the preferred sight picture, I then check (by shooting from station three at targets which are straight-aways) how high the gun is pointing. If I'm shooting over the target or taking the tops off them, I move the rib up, i.e., I increase the distance between the rib and the muzzle. (Keep in mind that when you shoot, you aim the rib, not the barrel. So if the gun shoots too high, that means that the muzzle must move down. When you adjust the rib, that will look like you are moving the rib up, but you are really moving the muzzle down.)

If, after adjusting the rib, I find that the sight picture has changed with the current comb setting (which hardly ever occurs, because my cheek is flexible enough to accommodate fairly significant movement of the rib) I'll re-adjust the comb to get the stacked bead sight picture and check to be sure that the barrel is pointing at the right height by shooting straight-aways again.

Done this way, I find it very easy to re-adjust the rib to deal with a trap that is throwing very high targets, or a strong wind from behind me, etc. All I do is make a minor adjustment to the rib height, and make sure I see the same sight picture each time I mount the gun. If you adjust the comb to deal with a need for changed elevation, you are trying to create a new sight picture, one which you must recreate exactly every time you shoot, despite the flexibility in your cheek. I think that making that change and doing it consistently is very hard to do.

Bottom line, I think it's much easier to always mount your gun and set your cheek so that you see the same sight picture (for me, stacked beads) and adjust the gun (actually the rib) to get it to shoot where you want. That way, there are fewer changes to make both inside and outside your head when you shoot, which for me, is a very good thing.

Unquote

Ted K.
 

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missed some....... Now you've done it!!!! Dan Thome (Trap2)
 

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This thread ought to get some interesting responses. From what I have read from other members this goes against a lot of theories.


Secondly, does raising the rib lower your POI? That does not make sense to me. If you are shooting over the bird you either need to change when you pull the trigger or if you adjust your rib you need to "flatten" out by lowering the rib. Right?

Bryan
 

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Lets start with this. "Keep in mind that when you shoot, you aim the rib, not the barrel". If you are aiming at a moving target you are not going to hit it.

Your cheek bone does not move. Push it down on the comb and keep it there!

Your front hand is the pivot point. You move the comb up, you move the butt stock down. Thus you shoot higher. You move the rib for very minor adjustments, if at all.

When the targets are flying high. I hold the gun higher above the trap, so my timing is the same. If you adjust the rib for conditions, you are playing with your mind way, way, to much to be any good at this sport.

I will let the rest of you finish. Jon
 

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When I got my MX-10 I took it to my bench to "sight in".

I lowered the comb all the way and shot looking down the rib with a figure 8 picture just like I used with my old gun.

Adjusted the rib until it shot where I wanted it to, then moved the comb up so I could comfortably get my figure 8 sight down the rib. 10 years ago and I've not moved it since.
 

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Rick,

The key to that post, is you have not moved it in ten years. Jon
 

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Ted, there is nothing wrong with your approach. In fact, it is exactly what Perazzi recommends, except for the scrunching your cheek part. Personally, I find it better to remove spacers from the comb rather than press harder with my cheek.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
calkidd - yup, raising the rib lowers your POI. You are thinking in terms of raising the place where you aim or point, but that's not what I'm talking about.

If you always put the target right on top of the bead when you fire, then if you raise the rib, the target is still going to be in the same place relative to the rib. But when you raised the rib, you really lowered the barrel (since the rib is still aligned with the target just as it was before you made the adjustment). If the barrel moves down, the POI moves down.


This might be easier to understand if you stop thinking about moving the rib and instead think about moving the barrel. Then you will get the intuitive result - moving the barrel down moves the POI down.


Rick N - you said in two sentences what I took several paragraphs to say. You got it exactly.


zzt - I am not suggesting scrunching - only that you can move your cheek around on the comb (and still stay comfortable) by a significant amount - certainly enough to make significant changes in the sight picture. If you are not completely comfortable when the beads are properly aligned, it's time to move the comb.

Ted K.
 

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i think people are confused when you say raising the rib raises the POI. It depends on which end of the rib you raise. On every adjustable rib I have ever seen, which really isn't a lot, both ends of the rib are adjustable, up and down. Raising the front lowers the POI, while raising the back raises the POI. That all assumes that you have the same sight picture. I know if I'm wrong someone will promptly correct me.
 

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i think people are confused when you say raising the rib raises the POI. It depends on which end of the rib you raise. On every adjustable rib I have ever seen, which really isn't a lot, both ends of the rib are adjustable, up and down. Raising the front lowers the POI, while raising the back raises the POI. That all assumes that you have the same sight picture. I know if I'm wrong someone will promptly correct me.
 

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Raising the bead makes it shoot lower. Think about it..if the bead was raised to the point that you couldn't see the bird in flight with your head down on the stock, the gun would shoot too flat. Once you lower the bead enough to see the target and hit it, you've raised your point of impact.

Most adjustable ribs are made to be moved in conjunction with moving the comb so you get the both the POI and the desired bead alignment down the rib.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Traders, you're right - it's confusing unless I make clear I'm talking about the adjustment at the muzzle end of the rib.

I have seen only one gun (the Citori unsingle) that is adjustable at both ends; all the rest I have encountered involve adjusting the muzzle end. (Perazzi ribs aren't really adjustable at both ends - they pivot in the middle, so if you move the muzzle end up, the breech end must go down; thus any adjustment moves the muzzle end of the rib. That's not the case with the Citori unsingle rib.)

Ted K.
 

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Ted K.....I think you are doing things backward. If you want to shoot lower ,you must raise the front of the rib, or lower the back; and , if you want to shoot higher---the opposit. The moveable comb then should be adjusted to keep the same sight picture as always (figure 8). Your cheek should be firmly on the comb always so that is NOT a variable. Tom B
 

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Not to make things even more complex but with these high rib trap guns shooters are now resting their cheeck on the side of the comb and not the top. I'm going thru this with my Trap Special. Comb and Rib are so high I would need to be an ostrich to put my cheek on top of it. To go along with this it's taking a stock with different dimensions (more off-set) to accomodate this new type of mounting. And yes cheek pressure does effect POI. I have a fat cheek. I can change the POI of my gun dramatically if I "dig in" my cheek into my comb. Dave T.
 

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Ted K:
When I got my CG, the factory gunsmith gave me the exact instructions as in your post. It works perfectly, and once adjusted for comfort and sight picture, I never change my comb. I don't understand why some shooters with adjustable ribs change the comb position to raise or lower the POI, unless the rib is center pivoted.

Ned
 
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