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Now I have been out of the game for a while, but I keep seeing everyone referring to the Winchester double A hulls as AA HS and AA old style. I know Winchester changed the double A hull right around 2000. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.
 

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The old style was a one-piece compression hull. The new style, or HS, is a two piece hull, apparently started production when the old machinery wore out. Supposedly they load the same, but not quite and personally, I don't like them. The new style is slightly shorter than the old style. On my MEC, adjusted for the old style hull, leaves a small hole in the center of the new style hull. I probably lose 2-3 pieces of shot out this hole in a box of shells. When I run out of old style hulls I'll adjust it. Meanwhile, I have an excuse for missing.
 

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There is some that don't trust the AA's because of the separate base was design.
I successfully load both types on my MEC grabber.
I've never had a problem with either one coming apart with many repeated reloads.
Bill
 

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As I remember, the early AAHS had a red basewad and a box around the AA logo on the hull. These were also not stamped with AAHS on the brass. These were the ones that had basewad separation issues. I have cut open many new AAHS hulls to try and test the basewad and found they are welded firmly in place.
 

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Exactly what Rapid said: The new ones are called AA HS (high strength plastic I think) and they are a 2 piece. They have an overall straighter hull but make it like the old AA by using a clear tapered basewad. Supposedly they are able to load just like the old ones, but I have found them a little different like what Rapid stated.

They are a little shorter and leave a small hole in the center on my MEC and PW 800 when using the same old AA recipe. They are a bit more shiny than the old one piece AA and it is sometimes hard to tell the difference in the red ones. The new HS come in a dark grey and a red, both very shiny and seem maybe a bit more slick than the old style.

I prefer the old styles. They load easier and the AA wads fit in better when loading w both my MEC and PW. With the new HS, it is really hard to see the clear plastic basewad. Use a strong flashlight and you will see it.

I sometimes have a "click" when the wad goes past the basewad to form a good seal, they tend to need a little more wad pressure to seat firmly. They load o.k. in my MEC and it's easy to adjust the MEC for the HS hulls. But my PW is very finicky and hard to get it set perfectly. It loves the old style and has a tendency to pre crimp poorly and sometimes crush if that happens.

Remington STS hulls are a lot like the old AA's. I can run them in my PW or MEC and not have to make changes. You may want to try STS and compare them to old AA's. Good luck.
 

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Exactly what Rapid said: The new ones are called AA HS (high strength plastic I think) and they are a 2 piece. They have an overall straighter hull but make it like the old AA by using a clear tapered basewad. Supposedly they are able to load just like the old ones, but I have found them a little different like what Rapid stated.

They are a little shorter and leave a small hole in the center on my MEC and PW 800 when using the same old AA recipe. They are a bit more shiny than the old one piece AA and it is sometimes hard to tell the difference in the red ones. The new HS come in a dark grey and a red, both very shiny and seem maybe a bit more slick than the old style.

I prefer the old styles. They load easier and the AA wads fit in better when loading w both my MEC and PW. With the new HS, it is really hard to see the clear plastic basewad. Use a strong flashlight and you will see it.

I sometimes have a "click" when the wad goes past the basewad to form a good seal, they tend to need a little more wad pressure to seat firmly. They load o.k. in my MEC and it's easy to adjust the MEC for the HS hulls. But my PW is very finicky and hard to get it set perfectly. It loves the old style and has a tendency to pre crimp poorly and sometimes crush if that happens.

Remington STS hulls are a lot like the old AA's. I can run them in my PW or MEC and not have to make changes. You may want to try STS and compare them to old AA's. Good luck.

The later batch of AA Hs are ok, the first one's , had a problem with base wad migration--

However, I would not shoot reloads inane auto loader for doubles.

Phil Berkowitz
 

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If you are using a bulky powder, such as Red Dot, Clays, Promo, etc., you likely will need to use a bit shorter wad, as the internal capacity of the AAHS hulls is slightly lower than the AACF. Downrange makes the DRA wads, which designed to work well with the AAHS and the bulky powders. You can also use a wad designed to hold 1/8 more shot than you are dropping. For instance, if you are dropping 1 oz. of shot, you could use a Blue Duster instead of a Green Duster. But things are more normal if you are using a dense powder, such as Titewad, 700X or Super Handicap.
 

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I load both new and old style AA hulls and don't notice any difference. I use the CB 1118 wad as well as the CB1100.
 

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Here is what Winchester had to say when they introduced the HS hull:
QUOTE

Reloading the New AA® High Strength Hull

Winchester has designed the new 12-guage AA high strength hull to reload with the same reloading data as the old AA hull. However, on some reloading machines, even though the components and reloading data are the same, there may need to be a minor adjustment made to the reloading machine to optimize load fit and appearance.

Some adjustments that can be made:

Shooters need to lower the starter crimp or pie crimp (Fig 1). Proper adjustment should eliminate the slight buckle some shooter see if this adjustment is not made.

The shell in Fig 2 shows an example of the crimp after adjusting the starter crimp stage. Shooters should not be able to put a pencil eraser down into the shell after the proper adjustment.

Another adjustment that can be made is to the wad ram (Fig 3). Most reloading machines are setup for 25 to 30 lbs. of pressure. An increase of wad pressure (up to 45 lbs.) will help seat the wad, and will help the final crimping on the shell.

On some reloading machines with a tapered crimp die, be sure that the final crimping stage on the reloading machine is clean and has no residue build up.

Please contact your reloading machine manufacturer if you need additional assistance making the proper adjustments to your reloader.

Shooter have found that after making a slight adjustment to the reloading machines good quality crimps and long reloading life are consistently obtained with the new AA high strength hull. The old style AA hull can also be reloaded with the new adjustments.

END QUOTE
 

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I can tell you from experience the difference between the AACF and the AAHS was something i was unable to adjust my way out of. I had to make a change to the components. Changing the wad to one a bit shorter solved my problem unequivocally.
 

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Crimps with holes!!! MEC Loaders are notorious for leaving a hole in the center..........LIKE ABOVE if you leave a hole for the size of an eraser after the per-crimp stage you WILL have a hole in the center of your hull.

SO adjust your loader to make a hole so a sharpened #2 pencil will go about 1/2 down..........anything short of that and you will have BB's in your box........However you have to do it shim it with washers if you have too.

AA HULLS........I stopped loading them because of case splits...........I have not touched an AA in 12 years...........So I do not know if they solved the case split problem................

GS
 

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I use 1-1/8 oz wads to re-load 1 oz loads and 1 oz wads to re-load 7/8 oz loads in the Win AA HS hulls with Clays or Red Dot powder.

My Mec Grabber could not be adjusted to do away with the hole in the crimp without buckling the side of the Win AA HS hull. As soon as I went to wads with more room in them the Win AA HS hulls started re-loading fine. With these wads I just raise the crimp depth one full turn.
 

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I absolutely,unequivocably DESPISE the damn things..,...STS is the only way to go.....when Winchester went to the new AA they created chaos in the reloading community for those who loved the old style hull...I used to load the old hulls up to 10 times with PERFECT crimps....so long AA's
 

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Obviously, the AAHS hulls are inferior hulls from a reloading standpoint. My advice is to just leave the once fired ones on the ground; don't bother to pick them up. Other, less knowledgeable reloaders might be tempted, to their detriment, to pick them up.
 

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I use a hornady 366 and I have no problems. It's recommended to use wads that are compatible or designed for the HS hull. My crimps are excellent. I use the Claybuster wads: CB0178-12 and CB1100-12. They can be used in the old CF hulls, however as I understand it the older Winchester wad not designed for the HS will not fit properly due to the taper in the new hulls. The new wads have small slits in the powder seal to seat into the taper....that's how I understand it anyway. I did get a ring that formed around the shell from my final crimp at first. I assume from to much pressure....I readjusted my final crimp and that's it. I also have few old hulls still and they run through the machine. Both look like factory loads. I also adjusted my starter crimp as Winchester suggested.....both adjustments were very minor. Depending on the powder I'm using I'm getting good mileage from the HS hulls.
 

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Understand that I am a new shotgun re-loader and have not loaded any of the old style AA hulls, so perhaps it is beginners luck but with 17 grains of Clays, 1 oz. of 7.5s, CB1100-12 on a PW 800+ and the crimps came out perfect and consistently the same, then switched out to the Gun Club Hulls and the crimps varied greatly from just right to spiraled ugly so my line of thinking on that is the consistency of the Gun Club hull length just varies too much for my taste unless I can trim them all to the same length to get the consistency up. So for me it is AAs all the way.
 

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Here is what Hornady says to do with regard to the AAHS:

How do I adjust my 366 Auto shot shell press to load the new Winchester AA hulls?
Re-adjust station 7 up to get the pressure off the case. It will usually need to be raised two complete turns. The manual calls for 7 to 9 threads above the jam nut. We find that around 10 to 11 turns will work for the new AA cases. After the adjustment you may have a small hole in the center. This can be corrected by adjusting station 6 down.
 

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While I too got frustrated with the shorter hull (which you really can't adjust your way out of w/o a component change as mentioned above), the MAIN reason that I quit picking up, and reloading the AA HS's is because of exterior changes.

The "rim" of the headstamp is too thin, and causes the new AA HS hulls to fall too far forward in the Browning Citori's (and probably other guns), and this, if in the lower chamber causes FTF's since the firing pin travel on the lower barrel of a Citori is less than the upper barrel. I just handed up getting SO fed up with FTF's because of this, that I just swore them off.

Here you can see the the effects of that thin rim: AA HS in top, Gun club on bottom:



The Gun club is totally flush, and the AA HS, well, as you see "not so much" ...
 

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Winchester gave Remington "The Keys to the Kingdom" as far a reloading goes. The AA HS are no where near as easy to load as the old style AA. As stated before it is hard to get the small hole in the end taken up. Also they are correct in using a slightly shorter wad which cures the problem somewhat. I will take the AA HS if given to me but, I won't buy them.
 

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Winchester gave Remington "The Keys to the Kingdom" as far a reloading goes.
They did. Yes ...

But I'm pretty sure that "reloadability" is the last thing on this list of things to consider for any design change.

Their machine tools (for making AA CF hulls) didn't "wear out", - that's BS. They made a conscious decision, and most probably it had to do with the cost (and time/rate) associated with manufacturability of the AA HS. Maybe they are getting the base wads made in China (or some other manufacturer), and the cost savings of that alone could justify them making the switch.

Also, think about all the plastic that they save my making the hull tube shorter.

At the end of the day, manufacturing a Reifenhäuser style hull is cheaper, - otherwise all of the Euro hulls around the world wouldn't be Reifenhäuser style hulls.

Look for Remington to convert their Gun clubs to Reifenhäuser style some day. They tried that before with their blue Gun clubs which were actually Cheddite hulls.

I pretty much exclusively load once-n-done Fiocchi's, and Rio blues, and I must say, that one change has simplified my reloading life WAY more than anything else I can think of.
 
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