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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As I get older and older the weight of my guns matters more and more. The Ultra-Lightweight
M4-AR Air Lite Black Widow Rifle really meets the need of a lighter gun. I discovered this gun by accident and just ordered one today after spending over an hour on the phone with the designer.

Ultra-Lightweight M4-AR Air Lite Black Widow Rifle - Ultimate Arms

They have just signed a contract with DOD.

What do you think?
 

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I'll say the same thing I said when you posted this on the other forum-Bushmaster did it a long time ago, and much cheaper. AND, at least they put the sights on the right way!

OH, and my second post there was: Aimed at the pew-pew crowd.

The rifle has some things that make me doubt that they know what they are doing: The backwards sights, a KEYMOD rail (how 2010) "high capacity magazine"? 30 is standard. And it's a gen 2 Magpul; again, not current cutting edge stuff that I'd expect with a $2300 dollar rifle. The grip doesn't fit well, then there is the site problems; A gmail and a hotmail for the web contact sites? No 800 number? Classy. And they want $2300 for that rifle? I say scam. Did you verify the DOD contract, or just go off what their site says? BTW, that just means they are buying a few for T&E, as they do with a lot of AR assemblers. Not like it's a Colt or FNH sized contract. Not even H-K.
 

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Not my thing, but glad I live in a country where I can buy whatever I want. Petty jealousy will get you nowhere.
Agree with Harv and Harv's K80 / 870 example is spot on.

With regard to AR's:
A fella can go to PSA or other online suppliers and pick up or build an AR/M4 for $500-$600 or order a Noveske or Geissele and drop about 2K and believe me there is a difference between the PSA and the higher end AR's or bargain basement parts vs higher end parts.

I know nothing of BlackWiidow but I do know that building a light weigh "quality" AR cost's.

I've built over a dozen AR's and like anything else in life quality costs. A good Geissele trigger alone will run $200 ish.. a good barrel another $300.... a good light weight hand guard another $200... get the picture ?
 

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If someone wants a magnesium lower and upper instead of plastic or alum lower and alum upper, may the price is worthwhile to them. If they have government contract, maker has to make up the price difference charged to government and consumers.
 
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I'm positive you have no idea the build cost for a 5lb AR. Having built both a light weight AR-15 and LR-308, a $1000 might get you a decent handguard, barrel, and BCG.

Looks like a nice AR.
 

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Agree with Harv and Harv's K80 / 870 example is spot on.

With regard to AR's:
A fella can go to PSA or other online suppliers and pick up or build an AR/M4 for $500-$600 or order a Noveske or Geissele and drop about 2K and believe me there is a difference between the PSA and the higher end AR's or bargain basement parts vs higher end parts.

I know nothing of BlackWiidow but I do know that building a light weigh "quality" AR cost's.

I've built over a dozen AR's and like anything else in life quality costs. A good Geissele trigger alone will run $200 ish.. a good barrel another $300.... a good light weight hand guard another $200... get the picture ?
A year ago someone could do this. Currently the only ones available are the multi thousand dollar models. All the other ones as well as parts ar "sold out".

But your point is well taken and a good description.
 

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A standard 16.5" AR weighs around 6.5 lbs.,not exactly heavy in the world of long guns. Losing a pound doesn't improve accuracy, recoil, or reliability.
Money would be better spent on a set of hand weights and practice ammo.
 

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Government is always finding ways to shed a pound here, a pound there for our military.

Saving weight the people don’t have to carry into combat, keeps their stamina up and gives them an edge over the enemy.

Biggest reason for the 5.56 round and the rifle that uses it was to reduce the weight involved from carrying M14’s and 308 rounds and before that, the M1 and 30-06 round.

Reember the plastic stocks and fore arms on the original AR15-M16?
 

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You can build a similar rifle - using a Magpul stock or the like, and a slim profile hand guard for around $500. I wouldn't waste the money on the barrel they did. I'd go with a somewhat heavier profile than theirs (just no M4 grenade launcher notch)... I figure the gun would tip at 5.5 lbs - maybe reaching towards 6... Isn't that light weight enough??

Sure, you can spend a fortune on the parts, but what is the rifle for??

I am fortunate, I live around the corner from Geissele and I have a great working relationship with Rock River, but not every gun needs their 'treatment.' Are you shooting 300 ~ 600 yards, or an urban environment?? Those things matter - a rifle accurate to 150 ~ 200 yards with 100% reliability may be more desirable than a finicky rifle that can de-nut a mosquito at 450 yards.

Food for thought

-

 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
A standard 16.5" AR weighs around 6.5 lbs.,not exactly heavy in the world of long guns. Losing a pound doesn't improve accuracy, recoil, or reliability.
Money would be better spent on a set of hand weights and practice ammo.
Some people who have been in situations of carrying their battle rifle seven days a week and 20+ hours a day might disagree with you. In a time long ago and in a place far away I was in that position and that is where I learned to respect light weight in all battle gear.

That said, since I wrote this, I have had PMs that pointed out other brands that are as light or lighter. Maybe I pulled the trigger on the purchase too quickly, although the prices are around the same price for a finished gun.
 

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The OP asked for thoughts and that was mine. In addition to what entropy posted above, there are many, many proven rifles out there under $2k. I'd also wonder why he can deliver a custom order in 30-60 days right now.
 

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Some people who have been in situations of carrying their battle rifle seven days a week and 20+ hours a day might disagree with you. In a time long ago and in a place far away I was in that position and that is where I learned to respect light weight in all battle gear.

That said, since I wrote this, I have had PMs that pointed out other brands that are as light or lighter. Maybe I pulled the trigger on the purchase too quickly, although the prices are around the same price for a finished gun.

50 years ago but in a not so distant place called the hills of Camp Pendleton, the tax payers also afforded me the paid opportunity to wear boots and carry loads of cool stuff. An M16 is certainly lighter than an M14 or M60. Weight of a 5.56 load-out though for a grunt is about the same as 7.62 or other platforms since any deep thinker is going to carry more ammo / squad gear given the opportunity or because the platoon sergeant says so. My trap guns tip the scales at least at 7 1/2 to 8 pounds and I don't need to rest them on my foot. The last AR had an upper with a heavy weight 20" barrel and a pound of lead in the stock. Also sported a sweet 16.5 BCM upper that was lighter with opinion being that from a maneuverability standpoint, length was more a factor than a pound of weight on an already light weapon. Then again I won't be slinging a "battle rifle" with an additional 50-100 pound ruck load at altitude or in a swamp anytime soon. Include a 30 round mag of 5.56 weighing a tad over a pound. Mounts, optics, BUS, flashlight, IR, NV, batteries, paddle switch, maybe a bayonet, and a can of beans and weenies. Go for it. What kind of DOD contract did UA just sign? Their website is a bit sparse.
 

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I saw one at the gun shop today that was 3 1/2 pounds. Lots of money but a cool toy if you have that kind of scratch laying around for a toy. I don't but I did get a new trigger that cost 250 bucks but it sure is sweet! I bet its a whole lot nicer then Stoners and it is 100% Mil spec and certified by the special forces.
 
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