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Discussion Starter #1
Hey there everyone!
I hope you are all well and healthy during this weird situation we’re all in. If you’re able to shoot, I’m really Jealous of you!!! Anyway, I have a question about state shoots that are going to be held concurrent with ATA Zone shoots, specifically for out of zone shooters. Let’s say I being a Central Zone shooter go to Missouri State shoot which is also going to be next to their ATA Zone, will a non resident be able to get All American points for that zone shoot? My thought process was that only in zone shooters can get points, but I can definitely be wrong.
I hope this doesn’t get any negative attention like the last thread I posted.. I’m just trying to keep us all sane and pick your brains on ATA knowledge.
I hope you all are staying safe and healthy and can’t wait to see all my friends and fellow shooters on the line this summer
Thank you all,
-Chase Horton
 

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Hey there everyone!
I hope you are all well and healthy during this weird situation we’re all in. If you’re able to shoot, I’m really Jealous of you!!! Anyway, I have a question about state shoots that are going to be held concurrent with ATA Zone shoots, specifically for out of zone shooters. Let’s say I being a Central Zone shooter go to Missouri State shoot which is also going to be next to their ATA Zone, will a non resident be able to get All American points for that zone shoot? My thought process was that only in zone shooters can get points, but I can definitely be wrong.
I hope this doesn’t get any negative attention like the last thread I posted.. I’m just trying to keep us all sane and pick your brains on ATA knowledge.
I hope you all are staying safe and healthy and can’t wait to see all my friends and fellow shooters on the line this summer
Thank you all,
-Chase Horton
Hi Chase,

It is a very good question. As more shoots get cancelled, I would hope the EC would consider these types of things. For example, there is a chance the IL state shoot and Central zone may not be held concurrently, but rather instead of due to logistics (though it sounds like this is still being discussed). This will surely affect where people will choose to shoot, sadly.

To your question, the current rules suggest you would be eligible for nonresident MO state trophies (and thus AA points) but not AA points for the zone shoot, as you are not a resident. As a result, someone from Kansas could shoot and break a 99. If you break 100, assuming no other ties, you’d get MO NR champ and those points. The 99 would get MO NR R/U AND Zone Champ points (plus score points for each of you, which has its own set of confusing implications). Depending on totals, the other shooter would have to forfeit one shoot’s points due to the no double points rule (see below, as someone posted).

Perhaps an amendment could be made such that you can shoot one zone shoot for points regardless of residence, especially with state shoots now possibly replacing or overlapping zone shoots due to (important and unavoidable) logistics?

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I am pretty sure this was published somewhere.

Basically since you are from Illinois and out of zone for the southwestern zone, you cannot get those zone points BUT since it is also the Missouri state shoot you can get state shoot points. There are more state shoot events than zone shoot events anyway. I read somewhere, if you were from Missouri (or anywhere in the southwestern zone), you would be eligible for both zone and state points but you cannot receive both. You would be awarded which ever total was higher for the entire event.
 

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This is off the ATA website.

To determine total All-American points earned at a given shoot, points are multiplied by the corresponding Competition Factor. Shooters may not earn “double points” for the same trophy/score. Therefore, when two All-American Points Shoots are concurrent (such as an ATA Zone shoot and a state/provincial shoot, or an ATA Zone shoot and other qualifying shoot), only one of the shoots can be counted among a shooter’s seven best for All-American team selection. Whichever one of the concurrent shoots where the shooter has earned the most points will be the one that is eligible to be among that shooter’s seven best. See “All-American Points System” box for additional details.
 

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Chase, unless I misread, you will be both out of zone and out of state. So the only AA points you -could- win are out of state points.
 

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This has raised my curiosity. It seems to me that there is really no benefit to a shooter to have a concurrent event with the ATA zone and state shoot (for in zone shooters especially) since you get only the highest points. And I am assuming if the shooter is good enough to win the ATA zone shoot he/she is good enough to score good points in the state shoot.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Now going off of the "highest points", lets say you have a high enough score to place first in a zone shoot.. and that same score is high enough to place 2nd or 3rd in state. Would the Zone placing give points before the State shoot and if that's the case then the shooter would be losing points.. Seeing that it would be better to have a higher accumulative points # in the state shoot than have two different shoots (one being one event of the zone and the other the state shoot). I wonder how that works
 

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Now going off of the "highest points", lets say you have a high enough score to place first in a zone shoot.. and that same score is high enough to place 2nd or 3rd in state. Would the Zone placing give points before the State shoot and if that's the case then the shooter would be losing points.. Seeing that it would be better to have a higher accumulative points # in the state shoot than have two different shoots (one being one event of the zone and the other the state shoot). I wonder how that works
They're two separate shoots.

Points aren't calculated until the shoot is submitted to the ATA.

The points are not calculated as the shoot is being conducted.

In other words, after each event, points are not calculated and someone says, "Oh you got more points in the Zone than in the State so the Zone points count for this event." It doesn't work that way.
 

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lets say you have a high enough score to place first in a zone shoot.. and that same score is high enough to place 2nd or 3rd in state.
For a Zone resident, this scenario could never happen.


Edit: I take that back. A Zone resident who is out-of-state for the State shoot could find themselves in that situation. They could be high in the Zone but 2nd or 3rd in the State shoot to shooters who are out-of-Zone and out-of-state.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
For a Zone resident, this scenario could never happen.


Edit: I take that back. A Zone resident who is out-of-state for the State shoot could find themselves in that situation. They could be high in the Zone but 2nd or 3rd in the State shoot to shooters who are out-of-Zone and out-of-state.
I live in IL, The state shoot is during the same time as the ATA Central Zone. We dont know yet if Brittany Shooting Park will host both at the same time. Points can be calculated during a shoot once the amount of shooters is figured out.. I am just wondering how they would pick which points to give shooters who are in my situation. Thats all
thanks for your input
-Chase Horton
 

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I live in IL, The state shoot is during the same time as the ATA Central Zone. We dont know yet if Brittany Shooting Park will host both at the same time. Points can be calculated during a shoot once the amount of shooters is figured out.. I am just wondering how they would pick which points to give shooters who are in my situation. Thats all
thanks for your input
-Chase Horton
Points are not calculated, by the AA team committee, until after the shoot reports are submitted to the ATA.

At that time, both the Zone and the State shoot would be input to the system.

A shooter's total points in both the Zone and a concurrent State shoot would then determine which of those two shoots can count toward one of that shooter's top seven.

Bottom line, as always, shooter's just need to shoot their best. The points will fall where they may.
 
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