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I bought my Remington Classic Trap 870 from Walmart 5 years ago today. I shoot an average of 100 rounds a week. That comes close to 26000 rounds fired without ever a gun problem. Pretty impressive. Can any of you M12 shooters match that?
 

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The Remington 870 is a very popular, reliable and inexpensive gun to shoot clay targets. However, to compare an 870, (especially one manufactured within the last 10+ years), with a Model 12 trap gun is somewhat hard to comprehend. Now if you gave me an 870 Classic and a Model 12 trap, I would utilize them in this manner. I would use the Model 12 for trap and the 870 Classic for a canoe paddle. :) JMHO. Ed
 

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I've been using my Grandfathers 1927 for hunting and trapshooting for about 30 years, that was after my Dad used it for 30 years. We've had to replace a couple of recoil pads. Wayne
 

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I would respond, but I'm speachless ... Now, thats saying something ... lol ...

FYI:
26,000 rounds ?, Hell I put more than 37,500 threw a "pre 64" Model 12 in one, as in 1 year and it had probably had over a million shots fired out of it and was over 40 years old then ... I still have it in the safe and take it out every so often just for yucks ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
 

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ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ...... LURE FLYING THROUGH THE AIR.......... "SPLASH" AS IT HITS THE WATER......... SILENCE FOR SEVERAL MINUTES WHILE RIPPLES IN THE WATER DISAPPEAR.......... TWITCH, TWITCH, AS YOU GENTLY GET THE LURE TO MOVE........ WHAM!!!! HERE THEY ALL COME FROM THE DEPTHS TO SMASH THAT LURE...... NICE TROLL.... LOUSEY BAIT, BUT, NICE TROLL......... LOL....... Dan Thome (Trap2)
 

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Got my 870 TB in 1972. Some years it saw more heavy use than others, but an average year had no less than 5000 shells fired, some years many more. I figured somewhere about 200,000 have been fired. Had to replace the trigger assembly and one firing pin. Extractor hook is rounded but still works most of the time. No blue left on magazine tube. I like it and have won plenty of shoots with it but I'd still like to have a nice pre-64 M12 trap gun. Had a M12 Heavy duck gun.
Nice job of getting people riled up. Fun to read.
 

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Question, Ismah? Are you running for troll of the year here?

It's plain to see that you don't know much about the Model 12 shotgun.

Hauxfan!
 

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You people are funny. My 870 is the number one trap gun of all time. More have been sold than all of the rest of your makes put together. And it's not just the price. They shoot great, they look a lot better than the M12, and I'll bet there's a shooter out there somewhere with an 870 that has kept a record of its endurance.
 

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What more do you need to know??

The Winchester Model 1912 (also commonly known as the Model 12, or M12) is a hammerless slide-action, i.e., pump-action, shotgun with an external tube magazine. Popularly-named the Perfect Repeater at its introduction, it largely set the standard for pump action shotguns over its 51 year high-rate production life. From 1912 until first discontinued by Winchester in 1963, nearly two million Model 12 shotguns were produced in various grades and barrel lengths. Initially chambered for 20 gauge only, the 12 and 16 gauge versions came out in 1914, and the 28 gauge version came out in 1934. A .410 version was never produced; instead, a scaled-down version of the Model 12 known as the Model 42, directly derived from scaled drawings of the Model 12, was produced for .410 instead.

Contents [hide]
1 Description
2 Military Use
3 See also
4 References
5 External links



[edit] Description
The Model 12 (introduced in 1912) was the next step from the Winchester Model 1897 hammer-fired shotgun, which in turn had evolved from the earlier Winchester Model 1893 shotgun. The Model 12 was designed by Winchester engineer Thomas Crosley Johnson, and was based in part on the M1893/97 design by John Browning. It was an entirely new design initially available in 20 gauge only (12 and 16 gauge guns were not sold until 1914). The Model 12 was the first truly successful internal hammer pump-action shotgun ever produced. Its tubular magazine was loaded through the bottom of the gun. Empty shotgun shells ejected to the right. Depending on the particular wooden transformer plug installed in the magazine, 2, 3, or 4 shells could be stored in the tubular magazine. The magazine holds 6, 2 3/4" 12 ga. shells. With forged and machined steel parts, the ultimate reason for discontinuation in 1963 was that it was too expensive to produce at a competitive price. The primary competition at this time came from the much less expensive Remington Model 870, which had been introduced in 1950. The majority of "modern" Model 12 shotguns manufactured after the 1930's were chambered for 2¾-inch shotgun shells, only. Some early Model 12's, however, were chambered for 2 9/16-inch shotgun shells. To add further confusion, some of these early Model 12's have subsequently been modified, with their chambers lengthened to accept 2¾-inch shotgun shells, while others remain in their factory-stock 2 9/16-inch chamber lengths. Careful inspection by a gunsmith is always recommended to determine whether or not it is safe to fire a modern 2¾-inch shotgun shell in older Model 12's.

Special commemorative examples were nonetheless produced by Winchester after 1963 through 2006, through specialized gun collector purchase programs, but the Perfect Repeater shotgun was never mass-produced after 1963. The Winchester factory announced a complete closing of the factory facility in January 2006, thus ending the Model 12's long and illustrious career at the age of 95 years.


[edit] Military Use
The United States military used various versions of the Model 12 in World War I, World War II, Korea, and in the early part of the Vietnam War, until inventory was exhausted after the Model 12's initial production ceased in 1963. Versions of the Model 12 were type classified as the Model 12 or M12 for short.

Approximately 20,000 Model 12 trench guns were purchased by the US Army in World War I, differing from the civilian version by having a perforated steel heat shield and a M1917 bayonet adapter. In appearance, the Model 12 trench gun was very much like the Model 1897 trench gun.

More than 80,000 Model 12 shotguns were purchased during World War II by the United States Marines, Army Air Force, and Navy, mostly for use in the Pacific theater. Riot gun versions of the Model 12, lacking the heat shield and bayonet, were purchased by the US Army for use in protecting Army bases and in protecting Army Air Force aircraft against saboteurs when parked during World War II. The Navy similarly purchased and used the riot gun version for protecting US Navy ships and Navy personnel while in foreign ports. The US Marines used the trench gun version of the Model 12 to great success in taking Japanese-occupied islands in the Pacific during World War II. The primary difference in Model 12 shotguns between the World War II trench gun version versus the World War I trench gun version was that the original design, containing 6 rows of holes in the perforated heat shield, was reduced to only 4 rows during 1942.

During the Korean War, the US Marines used the Model 12 extensively. Likewise, the US Marines and Army used the Model 12 during the early part of the Vietnam War, until, due to the Model 12's production ending in 1963, and the high rate of wartime use, the Model 12 shotguns in inventory were consumed. The Ithaca 37 soon filled the void caused by the end of the Model 12's production, especially among U.S. Navy SEALS. Ironically, it had originally been designed specifically to compete with the Model 12 in the years just before World War II.

Unlike most modern pump-action shotguns, the Winchester Model 12 had no trigger disconnector. Like the earlier Model 1897, it too fired each time the action closed with the trigger depressed. That and its 6-shot capacity made it effective for close-combat. As fast as one could pump the action, another shot would be fired.
 

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Better? Well, I don't know which is better but I have put a couple of hundred thousand rounds through my 870's and have only replaces one firing pin. They are certainly a much more simple gun and they never have to be rebuilt because they really aren't worth rebuilding. For the price an 870 is a better gun then a model 12. The same way an 1100 is better then a Sx-1. That said which would I rather own? a Model 12. It is a joy that goes behind the use vs value equation. An 870 is a tool and a Model 12 is a tool but an 870 is a Craftsman and a Model 12 is a Snap-on! Jeff
 
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