When I purchased my first can of Claydot, I asked for a reloading manual. The supplier said the formulas were on the jug, and they were, but they are very limited. He said I could follow Reddot formulas. I have not heard from anyone that it is interchangible w/ Clays. Could some one please confirm, with backup, before there is a problem?
Below is the text of a letter posted on this forum by Paul Furrier, Technical Manager of Alliant Powders, in which he states that Clay Dot and Clays can be loaded the same. The original issue was an apparent difference in velocities for the formulas on the powder jug between what was published on the jug and those measured by a reloader. These were determined to be caused by the difference in the type of chronographs being used.
If you want more verification, call Alliant Powder and ask for or leave a message for either Paul or Ben Ammonette regarding your concerns.
It seems we have a couple of issues here, charging of Clay Dot(TM) and velocity relative to expectations. We have had nothing but excellent feedback on this product, so I'm not really sure what is happening here, but I will tell you what I know. Dan682, please contact us at 800/276-9337 to discuss your specifics.
<I>Regarding charging of Clay Dot, our testing has shown our product to charge the same on average, and more uniformly than Hodgdon Clays. We use a test apparatus in our lab that is a pneumatically actuated MED type charging device with a fixed bushing. This standardizes the vibration during the test, and minimizes operator error. We tested 11 random lots of Clays product, and our apparatus yielded 18.68gr average charge. The average range of 10 individuals for each of the 11 Clays lots was 0.42gr, and the average standard deviation (square root of the average variance) was 0.13gr. For the first 8 production lots of Clay Dot, the same averages were: 18.66gr, 0.32gr and 0.11gr.</I>
The 100-150fps velocity difference mentioned above is puzzling also, again given our measurements and the uniformly excellent feedback we have recieved thusfar. Having said that, there are sources of error that can possibly explain some of the difference. 1. Our test set-up is a 30" full choke barrel, with inductance coils located 1.5' in front of the barrel and separated by 3'. We also correct all of our loading recommendations with SAAMI reference ammunition. We often see 30-50fps differences with a screen set-up, depending on the barrel length and choke used. 2. We measure our loads with weighed shot charges, while handloaders often charge less shot weight than they think due to the lower density of target grade hard shot. I usually obtain 1-1/16oz out of std 1-1/8oz bushings/bars with magnum shot. This would also lead to higher than intended velocity. 3. Clays powder has a propensity to absorb moisture quite readily due to it's hygroscopic nature. When the powder absorbs moisture, pressure and velocity drop substantially, so that may explain why the Clay Dot loads feel more sharp (higher velocity).
Mr. Holloway, please have your friend call us at the above number. Ben does not recall speaking with him, and we would certainly like to deal with his details.
Thanks to all who are using our Clay Dot or any of our other American made shotshell powders. We truly appreciate your business.
I just finished up my first and last 8 lb jug of Clay Dot. I am switching over to Clays. I find that using my RCBS Digital scale, the drops of powder can vary sometimes as much as 0.80 grains. Just to make sure it wasnt the scale, I tested some Win. Super Target powder. The difference in drops was a mere 0.10 grains. To me, that is a big difference. I really liked the clay dot until I did some testing..... And by the way, everyone that I have talked to said to load it like Clays.
I use 18gr. of Claydot, Fiocchi 616 primers, AA hulls, Glaybuster CB0178-12 replacement wads for Win. WAA12L and 8.5 shot size. Book say's about 1250 fps.
I have a real hard time telling the difference on performance over my 1oz. loads.
I've been using Clay Dot ever since it hit the market. I load with a non-hydraulic P-W 900 and have never seen a deviation in drops as large as .8 grns. I generally drop 17 to 18 grain charges and deviations of less than .2 grns. are the norm.
I sent an email to Alliant and got a reply from Ben Amonette, their Consumer Services Manager.
Here is my email to them...
From: M H<br>
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 11:07 PM<br>
To: Alliant Reloading<br>
Subject: Clays and Clay Dot reloading formulas
I've been using Clay Dot for years and have had a number of
discussions about it with other reloaders. Those who don't
use Clay Dot are suspicious of the contention that Clay Dot can be
substituted for Clays weight-for-weight and measure-for-measure. They
point out that Alliant has published very little reloading data for Clay
Dot (other than what's on the jug) that would back up that claim. I've
always been using Clays loading formulas for my Clay Dot reloads but
they have me wondering whether I should be doing that.
Can you give me some direction in this, please?
...and here is the reply I received:
<blockquote><I>" Clay Dot is a continuation of our dot series, hence the clay color ID
grain. It is made here in VA at our plant, whereas Clays is imported
from Australia by Hodgdon. They are not the same powder. However, Clay
Dot is designed to be functionally the same as Hodgdon Clays both in
terms of reloading data and performance. We have not tried all Clays
recipes with our Clay Dot, but the ones we have tried have worked out
very well. The benefits to Clay Dot are that it is very clean, American
made, more consistent that Clays throughout the temperature range, and
it cost less. Typically, if someone has their machine set up for
Hodgdon Clays, no adjustments are necessary when converting to Clay Dot.
Thanks for your note and I hope you have enjoyed and will continue using
Clay Dot. Let me know if you have any additional comments or questions.
Until then, good shooting and have a nice day.
Consumer Service Manager<br>
Alliant Powder Company<br>
You can interpret Ben's reply anyway you feel comfortable. As for me, I've used the powder for long enough and I've had enough phone conversations and face-to-face discussions with Alliant's people to feel safe and satisfied that their product does what they claim.